While visiting another blog I observed a discussion between 3 Muslim readers and a Christian reader regarding Christian beliefs. One Muslim reader posed a question on the concept of the Holy Trinity and whether or not it is mentioned in the Bible. I couldn't resist answering the question...here's what I said:
I've been sort of following the discussion you are having with Mario. I hope you won't mind me adding a couple of points to the discussion. These are my own explanations as I understand Christianity and as is supported by Biblical reference:
(2- if this word ( trinity)wasnt presented in the Bible, then where did it come from?
did someone invent or add it in Christianity? )
It may not have been spelled out in the Bible, but the concept is there.
If you read the Gospel of St John, chapter 1 verse 1 and 2:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
The word of God is Jesus Christ. This is verified again in verse 14: 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
That explains the Son.
As for the Holy Spirit: Matthew 3:16-17
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
and in Acts 2:17-18
17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
So in short, even if the word trinity itself is not in the Bible, the concept is clearly in there. The fact we believe in Holy Trinity doesn't mean we believe in 3 Gods.
The sun is a body that emmits warmth and light. Yet it is just one sun.
You have a mind and a spoken word. But you are just one person.
God has a Spirit and He sent His word (Jesus) to the world. He is one God.
It is a difficult concept to understand. I won't however claim that if you don't understand it then you must be stupid (like Truth claimed anyone who didn't understand the Quranic miracle must be!!). I'll just say that if you look at something with bias, you may not see the truth in it.
God Bless All
Then I remembered something else so I posted:
Sorry just thought of something else re:Trinity.
In Matthew 28:19
19Go out and train everyone you meet, far and near, in this way of life, marking them by baptism in the threefold name: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Notice here He says in the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... not the "names"... Which means the three are one.
Also in John's Gospel, St John indicates the purpose of his writing this Gospel is to indeed show that Christ IS the Son of God. Chapter 20:31
31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Then I was rewarded by a torrent of abuse by the person called Truth, for my efforts in answering the question he posed. Silly me, I thought he was asking a question because he genuinely wanted to kn ow the answer!
Then Muslim posted the comment on my post The Coptic Flag which I'd like to respond to here. Before I do, I thank Muslim for his comment which is a far cry form the childich retort i recieved from Truth.
If Islam and Judaism state clearly the Oneness of Allah ..
How can Christianity which is the second volume of the same book says otherwise.
Christianity doesn't say otherwise. We have something called the "Creed" which is our cofession and affirmation of our faith in Christianity. The opening statement in our creed is: (see: http://www.scar.utoronto.ca/~coptic/creed.shtml)
Truly we believe in One God
Is any of us; He and his father ONE??!!
No we aren't one with our fathers or mothers. But the concept of God the Father and God the Son in the Holy Trinity is not the same as how men father children on earth. God didn't actually father a child...We say Jesus is the Son of God to point out the fact that He was sent from God and He is God.
Allah almighty sent Muhammad PBUH as the final Prophet to complete the religion that has been sent in volumes Judaism, Christianity then Islam. That religion needed to be completed and prove is that they all allow and forbids the same things with more aspects to life way of living in Islam.
Now that's interesting. What was it that Islam completed? Christianity and Judaism were already quite clear in what they allowed and disallowed. In fact Christianity completed Judaism.
The Old Testament is there to explain what the original sin was, and why we needed salvation. It also predicts the coming of the Massaiah who will deliver that salvation and reconcile Heaven and earth. The New Testament shows the fullfillment of those prophecies and tells of the early Church.
Forgive me, but I fail to see how Islam has anything to do with this. How did Islam address the salvation of humankind from the original sin? How does Islam address the Saviour (The Massaiah) that Jews are still waiting for?
Not all Christians are disbelievers or imitate disbelievers
If by "disbelievers" you mean those who believe in the Holy Trinity, I regret to tell you we are all disbelievers to you then. There isn't a Christian on earth who doesn't believe in the Divinity of Christ...it isn't possible!
For disbelievers and atheists, Allah also in Quran has drawn to us the basic lines in our relationship with them and how to treat them.
Would you care to list those for us please Muslim?
...if Judaism and Islam order us to glorify the Lords “Allah”’s name and not to take him in vain which include but not limited to “valueless, pointless, worthless … etc. acts”, then certainly Christianity does not allow this. Allah’s messengers have been praised and valued by Allah in all religions. Allah wouldn’t accept their names to be taken in vain!!
I believe you said this in the context of the cartoon issue. You're right, we follow that same command in Christianity. But what did Christianity have to do with the cartoons anyway?
I don't know where you 're from Muslim, but it always seems that the Islamic world views the West as "Christian", and so everything that happens in the West must be attributed to Christianity. Not True!
Christianity itself has suffered a great deal of mockery and insults at the hands of "Westerners" too. Christianity may be the religion of the majority here, but it doesn't dictate what is written in the papers or shown at galleries or taught at schools. The West is SECULAR.
Finally, I do acknowledge again that the concept of the Holy Trinity looks difficult and illogical on the surface. However, it is what we (Christians) believe in and will always believe in. If it makes us unbelievers in the eyes of Muslims, so be it.