One Step Forward, Two Steps Back
Like you said it's not possible to address absolutely everything we say, but usually we try to address the points that stand out to us. So much has stood out to me in your last lot of comments, that I felt I need to address it in a separate post.
Again, I will say that I respect your entitlement to your opinion, but I also value my own entitlement to say what offends me about them. You have overstepped the line in your last comments Sara. Let me tell you how:
1) You have attributed the strength of our faith and our church to Islam!!! What, pray tell gives you the right to evaluate the Christian faith or the Coptic church? What do you know of Orthodoxy?
it is well know that Egyptian coptics are one of the minorities that still keep faith in christinity...not as the western countries who forgot it...that's not because you are a great ppl...not that the main reason...but also you livied in a society that full of faith that helped you in that and didn't stop you.....
What an outrageous claim!!! How arrogant to attribute our steadfastness in preserving the faith to merely living in a Muslim society.
I'll tell you why the church still stands Sara. It is because of a promise Jesus gave us: upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.Matthew 16:18
وعلى هذه الصخرة ابني كنيستي وابواب الجحيم لن تقوى عليها
In fact if it were up to some Muslims, Christianity should be eliminated from the land of the great Nile. Anwar Sadat himself made that claim at the Summit of Islamic Nations in the 1950's when he was Secretary of the State to Nasser.
2) Your claims that the kidnapped Coptic girls are merely tramps whose families didn't know how to raise them properly:
it is their family problems who failed to raise their girls on our real traditions and how to be polite and there are many limits in talking with boys....also wafaa kostantine who no one knows what happened to her after el dair took her.... she was knowing a Muslim friend in her work....how could a married woman do such thing...
go and fix those women and ladies ethics and don't make us -Muslims- the reason for every bad thing happen to you according to your bad raising for those families..
متشكرين جدا يا ست ساره. ربنا يكرمك و يكرم أصلك يا ستّى.
So that's what you feel, hey? That they're all worthless, immoral harlots? Do you feel the same about the Kossovar women who were raped by the Serbian soldiers, I wonder?
What about the girl who was on her way to becoming a nun? (Nevine Maher Albert)
What about the girl who called her family asking for help? (Theresa Ghattas)
How come they are all minors, except of course for Ms Costantine, who unwittingly became a champion for every Muslim wishing to deny the kidnappings?????????
3) Your insinuation that the Copts will "cop it" if the UN investigates.
in our Muslims eyes ..you will be the one who brought them to EgyptÂ these organization are putting Egyptian Copts who lives in Egypt in the place of the enemyÂ
All I can say to that is, following your own logic, every surviving Jew from the Holocaust should hate all Germans
every American family who lost a loved one in Sept 11 should kill a Muslim person...
Aussie families who lost someone in Bali, kill a Muslim each
British people should lock up all British Muslims...what the hell, kill a few as well.
Then all Muslims should hate the Danes...
And all Jews...
Doesn't matter if these people have anything to do with the original offense...just hate them by association.
If you use that logic Sara, then we live in a jungle. That mentality strips us of the intellect that God gave us to set us apart from His other creation.
Besides, you forget a very important point. Why not fix the problem instead of just taking out the anger on innocent people.ولّا هو يعنى يبقى موت و خراب ديار؟؟؟
Also, nobody, I repeat NOBODY ever asked for foreign interference in any shape or form relating to millitary action!! Get that idea out of your head. If any Copt says it, I guarantee you they'll have to answer to us first. Ya Sara we all have families and childhood friends in Egypt...who wants to see their loved ones live through a war ya benty?????? It is no logical.
Another issue I wish to clarify is your claims regarding how lucky Copts in Egypt should be:
* To not get offended and shocked like what happened to us with those cartoons
We never make fun of Jesus.
Is that a fact Sara? How about the books published by the Islamic Center for Enlightenment [see previous posts: (How Enlghtening) and (To Peter, Mohamed and Mustafa)]? Who are they making fun of?
What about Zaghloul el Naggar who writes for Al Ahram?? who is he offending?
What about sheikh el Sharawi (yes I'll mention him again) who gave himslef the right to "interpret" our Bible?
What about every tiny bit of sufferig inflicted on Christians in Islamic countries? You know that Jesus said: Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40
فيجيب الملك ويقول لهم الحق اقول لكم بما انكم فعلتموه باحد اخوتي هؤلاء الاصاغر فبي فعلتم
but in western countries they make fun of JesusÂ they hurt you deeply and you don't open your mouth to protest!!!
Who says we don't protest? Just because we don't burn buildings, go on a violent rampage, or issue a few death threats??
* You are living with all the forbidden in Christianity that is practiced in those western countries officially!! and you don't open your mouth to protest!!!
1) It isn't what happens outside of a Christian that affects their faith and relationship with God. A good Christian usually lights the way for those around them by setting a good example: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:16
فليضئ نوركم هكذا قدام الناس لكي يروا اعمالكم الحسنة ويمجدوا اباكم الذي في السموات
2) What is it that happens here in the West that doesn't happen in Egypt?
* Alcohol, drugs and gambling? All happen in Egypt. Last I checked the drug problem in Egypt was far worse than it is here in Australia.
* Pre-marital sex? Happens in Egypt...except they cal it "Orfi marriage" over there!! I know! I know! you;ll say it is prohibited in Islam. That's not the point, point is IT HAPPENS. Difference is, here in the West if someone is doing something, they don't lie and hide.
* Homosexual relationships? again, happens in Egypt, and has happened for a loooooooooong time. It's just hidden in failed marriages and stolen affairs.
* Criticism of religions? Happens in Egypt. Difference is, here everyone is equal. In Egypt, only Islam is exempt from criticism.
The image of a immoral Westren soeciety with no values, is a symptom of the Arab mentality that is diseased with resentment and jealousy. I have lived here for half my life, and have seen so many solid families from all nationalities you can imagine. Families where there is respect, morals and good values taught to their children. Families that are no less cohesive than their Egyptian counterparts, if not more than some. I have friends who are just as honorable and dignified as my old Egyptian friends. I have friends who are more religious than many Egyptians are.
There are negatives here, sure! but what society is free of those? At least here people are open and honest and they don't hide from their problems.
You criticise me for pointing out faults in the Egyptian society, saying I don't live there and so I don't know what I'm saying. Yet there you are passing judgement on the Western society as a whole, and all you probably know of them is photos of half naked celebrities and sleazy stories about teenage pregnancies that the Arab media loves so much to bandy about.
but in those countries...they left the chiristinity aside and most of these countries became with no relegion....
The state and Church were separated. Religion and politics were separated. But people haven't just "left" Christianity. The Catholic church around the corner from my house fills up with so many worshippers every Sunday, they have to run 4 mass celebrations! And still, people are spilling out of the doors. And that's just one church! And generally, teh Catholic church is witnessing a revival (see David's post on the subject http://italiancatholic.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-fervor-among-young-italian.html)
you are in america, read news...hear huromers...visit at min annualy...not a day by day living
You forget that I was born and raised in Cairo. In Shoubra to be precise. You don't get any more "real Egyptian experience" than that! I grew up on a diet of molokheyia, fuol, Naguib Mahfouz, Abdel Halim, Om Kalthoum, Yousef Idriss, Tawfiq el Hakim, Taha Hussain, Ali Amin and Mostafa Amin. I wrote poems about Jamila Bu7reid, Arab unity and children of the Intifada for my Arabic homework. My grandfather actually graced the political prisons you seem to think only house Muslims. He was jailed repeatedly for "resisting the Brittish occupation" then again for protesting corruption in Nasser's time. My uncles were right there in Sinai when we were defeated in 1967. My father fought and was injured in the October 1973 war. I know what Egypt is, and what Egyptians are Sara. I don't just read about it in the papers!
If you're still reading, and you haven't fallen asleep out of boredom or turned off the computer out of anger, I wish you all the best Sara. I pray that one day you may start to understand what we are really saying, and stop assuming the worst in us.
God Bless you and your family.