الجمعة، أبريل 14، 2006

Judas and Dan

This post is in response to Sara's comment on the post: The Bible in the Quran:…Why the Holy Bible is not a fake

Hi Sara, it's good to hear from you again. Please allow me to address your comment.

1-Judas

I haven't actually seen the documentary you mentioned, but I have heard and read alot about it. There is an excellent article about the Gospel of Judas written by Mark D. Roberts who is a pastor and a theologian. Here's the link: http://markdroberts.com/#apr906

You will find there a link that allows you to read the Gospel of Judas itself (or whatever is recovered from it). Basically Sara, citing the Gospel of Judas as evidence of the corruption of the Bible is very weak.

The Gospel of Judas contrasts wildly with the Gospels of St Mark, Matthew, John and Luke. The concepts in that Gospel (Judas) are a reverse of everything else in Christianity.

You say:
...and the shock that the bible or the book was written by the copts in egypt called epistemics....and that bible of judas were written 200 years after Jesus (PBUH)...

So are you saying the Gospel of Judas is a fake? If so why are we having this discussion? Christians also don't acknowledge this Gospel. It was rejected in 185 AD. It was rejected because the other Gospels were already accepted by the church.

(By the way it is the Gospel of Judas not the Bible of Judas. The Bible is the Holy book containing the Old and New Testaments.)


what was a more shocking that all the acadimis and bible proffesors said the all the four bibles of the disciples were documented after their death.....

Did they now? Well, I suppose they didn't explain how they arrived at that conclusion?

There is a lot of evidence that the Gospels of St Mark, Matthew, John and Luke were in fact written before the year 70 AD.
Here are some examples:

+ The earliest quotation of Matthew is found in Ignatius who died around 115 A.D. Therefore, Matthew was in circulation well before Ignatius came on the scene.

+ None of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D.:
Jesus Has predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple saying: "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:5, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). This was indeed fullfiled in the year 70AD. If the Gospels were written after then, they surely would have mentioned this event:
a) It was an extremely significant event
b) It was a fulfilment of Jesus Christ's words

+ Even the books following the 4 Gospels such as Acts fail to mention the destruction of the temple. The book of Acts is considered a historical account of the early church, immediately after the ascension of Jesus Christ. Again, an even as significant as the destruction of Jerusalme and the temple would surely have featured in it.

+ The Gospel of St John the Evangelist is considered to be the last of the Gospels to have been written. Papyrus fragments containing St John's Gospel were found in Egypt in the year 135AD. They were dated then to have been written in the 80's.

If you are interested, here are my sources:
http://www.gotquestions.org/when-Gospels-written.html
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter03.html
www.carm.org/questions/gospels_written.htm


2-Dan

go and read a wonderful story called " the da vinci code"....

You said it!! a story. The Davinci Code is a novel, filed under "fiction".

was the best seller at 2003 and sold more than 30 million copies allover the world...

Yeah, and the "Satanic Verses" was and still is a best seller too. Your point is...?

that story pushed a lot of priests to publish books defending the christinity!!!!!!!!!

Christianity didn't need to be defended. If there were books written to counter the claims made by Mr Dan Brown, what is wrong with that? At least he wasn't declared an apostate by the Vatican, and there was no money offered for his death.

This book, the Davinci Code, is a murder mystery which weaves alot of conpiracy theories through the plot to spice it up. Mr Brown wasn't the first to bring up those conspiracy theories. He has in fact just been trialled for plagiarismm.

More importantly, all the claims he makes in the books are easily destroyed. He says he based the events on facts and real locations. His references: Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Templar Revelation are not history books though. Go to any university teaching history or theology, check their curricula...you certainly won't find those references in there.

Sara, if you want to refute the Holy Bible and the Christian faith, I'd recommend you refer to a "real" book not to a novel.

last words...both..the programm of Gospel of JUdas and the story are non muslim sources..once a swizz chanel ..the other is an american author...

Here's a little fact about Christian history: Even before Islam, there were heretics who were actually Christians before they lost their way.

Here's a little fact about the Western world today: It's secular. A Swiss, American, British, Italian...researcher can say what they please about whatever they want to.

Being a Swiss or American doesn't automatically make their findings the absolute truth. There has been hundreds of Western and Eastern theologians and writers who also refuted the Quran and the Islamic faith. But you'd call those "Anti Islamic sources" I guess, and I suspect youu would strip them of all credibility too!!!

Finally, you still haven't answered my questions from the last post:

1) If you acknowledge that God gave Moses and Jesus the Torah and Injil, how do you explain that the Almighty couldn't protect His word from corruption?

2) Who is responsible for altering the original Bible? Jews or Christians?


I look forward to learning your thoughts regarding the above questions.

6 Comments:

Blogger xavier said...

Nefeerti:
Good. As I pointed out in another post, Brown is a fraud and a bad writer which poor culture.

Here's a fact that'll interest Sara. The Bible- aka old and new testaments- have about 5000 documents from whole books to scraps of papyrus. That's far more than what we have of Plato's works. yet no one disputes the autentnicity of Plato's writings nor has anyone accused his students of altering the texts. A tribute to the intellectual honesty of the philosophers.
So the fact that we have so many copies of the bible provides a confident basis to accept their inerrancy and consistency.

xavier

أبريل 14, 2006  
Blogger Ash said...

Hi Bent El Neel,

Thanks for the lovely comment on my blog. Happy Easter to you too. I like your blog too!

Bless you :)

أبريل 15, 2006  
Blogger xavier said...

Ash:
Hey really beautiful photos. You're a talented photographer. Shhhh mustn't reveal your skills to aljack
It's haram and you're blashpehing for wanting to imitate God's perfection ;)
O and welcome to Nefreeti's comment box. Hope to read from you again :)


xavier

أبريل 15, 2006  
Blogger Egypeter said...

Excellent post.

It's funny, because I just watched the 2 hour special on the Gospel of Judas on the National Geographic Channel last night (I had it on Tivo from last sunday)

This Gospel is no different than any other of the Gnostic texts (Nag Hamdi Library) that have been discovered. Simply, this Gospel is heretical and NOT "INSPIRED" like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. That documentary, while interesting from a historical perspective, offered nothing new.

Sara - "Inspired" texts mean that they were written by GOD through the hands of man. It means that they are the authentic teachings of God Himself...can you understand that?

Bent...this made me chuckle:

"At least he wasn't declared an apostate by the Vatican, and there was no money offered for his death."

It's funny, Salaman Rushdie wrote what muslims consider heresy and Brown wrote what Christians consider heresy...who was the one that had to flee for his life? lol.

Since this isn't my blog, I don't have to be politically correct, Sara, you need to get a life. You're fighting a losing battle dear.

On another note: Bent did you hear about what happened today to Copts in Egypt at the hands of the "peaceful" muslims??

Sara, what do you have to say about this?

Let me guess:

A)It didn't really happen the Copts are lying or at least exagerrating.

B)These people are not real muslims or do not represent Islam just like if a Christian commits an evil act it is not idicative of Christianity.

C)The Copts shouldn't have been praying in the first place. This rightfully incited the attackers.

D)The attackers are all mentally unstable and very sick in the head so this is unrepresentative of the peace and harmony that Copts and muslims live in.

E)They were not muslims but are agents of the U.S. or Israel and are trying to cause problems in Egypt.

Which one of these scenarios is the reason sara?

أبريل 15, 2006  
Blogger xavier said...

Egypter:
You raise an important point but we'll need to elaborate on inspiration as understood by Christians. Sara will raise many legitmate questions so we'll need to walk her through.
Also, I have in the back of my mind that the Copts and Catholics might have a very slight difference on inspiration (but after reading your post, it's identical to what Catholics hold.)

xavier

أبريل 15, 2006  
Blogger yochanan said...

The Torah has not been altered It is against the jewish religion to change one letter in it. Anyone who says that the Jews altered the Torah does not have a clue in what Jews beleive in.

أبريل 23, 2006  

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