More Belated Responses!!
Here's the second (and final) installment of response to your comments/question:
Just to clarify, we do not believe that God hated Adam and Eve at all, nor does He hate us. God was saddened by their sin but never hated them. God’s punishment is clearly spelt out to Adam:
17وَقَالَ لآدَمَ: «لأَنَّكَ سَمِعْتَ لِقَوْلِ امْرَأَتِكَ وَأَكَلْتَ مِنَ الشَّجَرَةِ الَّتِي أَوْصَيْتُكَ قَائِلاً: لاَ تَأْكُلْ مِنْهَا، مَلْعُونَةٌ الأَرْضُ بِسَبَبِكَ. بِالتَّعَبِ تَأْكُلُ مِنْهَا كُلَّ أَيَّامِ حَيَاتِكَ. 18وَشَوْكًا وَحَسَكًا تُنْبِتُ لَكَ، وَتَأْكُلُ عُشْبَ الْحَقْلِ. 19بِعَرَقِ وَجْهِكَ تَأْكُلُ خُبْزًا حَتَّى تَعُودَ إِلَى الأَرْضِ الَّتِي أُخِذْتَ مِنْهَا. لأَنَّكَ تُرَابٌ، وَإِلَى تُرَابٍ تَعُودُ».
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. Genesis 3:17
Why you are better than those before coming of Jesus (in your belief)?!!
On the contrary we don’t believe we are better than they at all! I think David’s explanation was excellent. Salvation on the cross may have happened at a certain moment in time…but it is not bound by time. God is not bound by time, so an act of God (who saved un on the cross) can’t be bound by time. Just as He is eternal, His salvation is eternal and has saved all who obeyed Him and lived by His law with honesty and humility.
Is Adam's sin like your daily sins?
The original sin is not like the sins we may commit in our daily life (see explanation in the first post on this issue)
Jesus saved us from the effect of the original sin and reconciled the Heavens and the earth. He gave us a clean slate if you like…its up to us to keep it clean or otherwise.
Think of it this way:
My father gave me a beautiful car and told me not to drive down a certain highway because it’s known to be dangerous.
I go there anyway…and whaddya know? I have an accident!!! I’m OK, but my beautiful new car is no longer beautiful…dinted and scratched everywhere.
I apologise to dad and he accepts my apology…I promise to listen to him from now on.
What happens to the car? I can’t afford to fix it!
Dad, because he is kind and loves me to death, fixes the car for me.
Now I have my beautiful new car looking every bit as beautiful as ever.
Whose responsibility is it now to keep it beautiful and look after it?
It is now up to me to be careful…to listen to dad’s advice…to keep away from danger.
Of course, the above example is not an exact match for the need for salvation to free us from sin…but I do hope it helps clarify the issue.
I think that God must be the Most Powerful,as a result when He want to cerate man by a nature,there is not any power which can change this desire.And regarding this belief,I can imagine if God asked a man before Jesus coming;Why you did this sin?So he will reply:It's not my sin,my creation have a fault!!
Yes God is most powerful…yet sin exists. The concept of sin exists in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I’m not sure what you are asking, because if you are questioning how sin exists in God’s creation then you would be questioning your own belief as well.
because Islam tells you to organize and resist-not kill-this lust and you'll paid by entering paradise,and if you didn't resist it so you'll be punished,if you replied the call of lust (by your free will)you'll be punished(in case you didn't repent),and if you replied the call of charity and good(by your free will)so you'll take the good retribution.
Again, I don’t understand what you mean by “organise and resist”. Christianity doesn’t expect us to “kill” sin!!! Like I said sin exists in all walks of life. It is up to us to excerise our free will, strengthened by God’s love in our hearts to keep away…to refuse being dragged into a sinful life.
What you say in that paragraph is exactly the same thing we believe: it’s up to us to choose!
Why?Because Islam is not related to any nationality,persons or people but it denotes submission and obedience to Allah.
Also, Christianity is not bound to one race or group of people. The salvation was meant for all creation…not bound by time or by race or place.
So,we don't deny Judaism and Christianity,but we believe that they're in their origin are right,but because the task of guarding Holy books of both of them have been put on shoulders of their followers so they have been corrupted,but as for Qur'an Allah Himself guarded it from being corrupted : " We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). "15:9And look at Bible,and will find a lot of conflictions between all Bibles.
Three problems I have here:
1) God also says in the Bible that His word will not be altered:
35اَلسَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ تَزُولاَنِ وَلكِنَّ كَلاَمِي لاَ يَزُولُ
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35
2) If God promises He will guard His word from corruption…how do you explain Him allowing Jews/Christians to corrupt it?
If the Almighty says “I will guard My word”…why didn’t He?
3) Now I don’t know about you, but I for one read the Bible. There are different translations…but there are no conflict in the meaning between the translations.
Also, I don’t understand what you mean by “Bibles”?? do you mean Gospels? Or translations of the Bible?
And if you know what these conflicts are, could you give us an example? Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning or you have been misinformed. We could certainly explain this to you and at the end, you may decide you still don’t like the explanation…or that it did indeed clarify it to you.
and I've been always asking myself;How Christianity by the belief in Trinity is respecting mind?!!This belief can't be reached by mind at all
Well actually it can! Many people throughout history believed in this faith whilst being very intelligent and well educated.
Perhaps you mean it cannot be accepted by YOUR mind? There is a difference here.
There are many things in Islam that I know MY intellect cannot accept. It doesn’t negate YOUR acceptance of them…it just means I don’t sccept them. But I can’t judge your intellect by my bias. Similarly you should not judge others faith and intellect by your own.
all prophets and messengers talked about the One God who have no son or wife.
We do not believe God has a wife either!!
God's nature is absolute and don't change by time,so if you thought about Trinity again you'll find that it existed after Jesus(in Christian belief)but before him there wasn't any Trinity.
God Has always existed…His nature doesn’t change…correct.
What has changed is our understanding of His nature.
The trinity has always existed Mohammed. The Gospel of St John the Apostle says:
1فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ، وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللهِ، وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللهَ. 2هذَا كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللهِ. 3كُلُّ شَيْءٍ بِهِ كَانَ، وَبِغَيْرِهِ لَمْ يَكُنْ شَيْءٌ مِمَّا كَانَ. 4فِيهِ كَانَتِ الْحَيَاةُ، وَالْحَيَاةُ كَانَتْ نُورَ النَّاسِ، 5وَالنُّورُ يُضِيءُ فِي الظُّلْمَةِ، وَالظُّلْمَةُ لَمْ تُدْرِكْهُ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
The word here refers to Jesus Christ as does the Quran too:
 O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs
Sura 4 verse 171
Now I know this verse opposes the trinity but note the reference to Jesus as the word of God which is the point I’m trying to make…how do you explain Jesus being “The word of God” yet different to God? God being eternal: ie. Not bound by time…His word is as eternal as He is.
Look, sorry I didn’t want to turn this into a debate. Our aim of this discussion is to clarify to you what we believe. I am well aware of the fact you do not believe in the trinity and have also read “tafseer” of the Quran regarding Jesus. So I’m not asking you to explain this verse to me. I’m merely using it to clarify a point.
In a way, I know what the verse means to you as a Muslim…I’m, just telling you what it means to me as a Christian.
I'd like to direct your attention to an important point,when I say that Christian belief have faults I don't aim at irritating you but I just invite you to let your mind work,whether you find me right or wrong but just don't delete your mind.
Mohammed; I know you don’t mean offence, but I can’t help but feel offended at your assumption that we don’t understand what we believe.
For starters, how did you arrive at the conclusion that we don’t use our mind to understand our faith?
If its merely the result of your inability to comprehend Christian concepts then forgive me but this is arrogance. I said this before to Mohammed Meshref, it’s like me saying “Physicists don’t employ their intellect to understand physics” just because I don’t understand physics!
Also, what you know about Christianity may not necessarily be a correct representation of what we actually believe. Hence, this discussion we are having to clarify some concepts to you. Of course you may still see these concepts as unacceptable to you…that’s fine, I’m not here to convince you of anything.
Just be mindful of the fact that a bit of tolerance goes a long way. Don’t “delete” our right to believe and practice a faith that we see as every bit as acceptable and meaningful as you see your own faith.
God's Peace and Blessings Be With You