Neferteeti

الرد على تساؤلات "احساس لسه حي" -- جزء 2

2009-09-12T00:11:00.006+10:00

سلام و نعمه

اولا اعتذر لتأخيري في الرد على تعليقك هنا و اللي كان لظروف مرض بنتى.

قررت افراد تدوينه خاصه للرد على تعليقك يا اخ احساس لأنى وجدت فيها نقاط متشعبه كثيره يصعب الرد عليها في تعليق.

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. ليس احد صالحا الا واحد وهو الله .ولكن ان اردت ان تدخل الحياة فاحفظ الوصاياطيب ما الكلام واضح اهو انه انسان زيه زينا ولا جواه اله يخليه صالح ولا هو جوه الاله لان لا اله الا اللهيعنى ولا جوه حد ولا حد جواه ولا اى شئ غريب زى ده

أرجو ان حضرتك ماتكونش من النوعيه اللي بتأخذ النص و تتجاهل سياقه لأثبات شئ بعينه.

+ ها هو النص في سياقه

" 17 وَفِيمَا هُوَ خَارِجٌ إِلَى الطَّرِيقِ، رَكَضَ وَاحِدٌ وَجَثَا لَهُ وَسَأَلَهُ:«أَيُّهَا الْمُعَلِّمُ الصَّالِحُ، مَاذَا أَعْمَلُ لأَرِثَ الْحَيَاةَ الأَبَدِيَّةَ؟»

18 فَقَالَ لَهُ يَسُوعُ:«لِمَاذَا تَدْعُونِي صَالِحًا؟ لَيْسَ أَحَدٌ صَالِحًا إِلاَّ وَاحِدٌ وَهُوَ اللهُ.

19 أَنْتَ تَعْرِفُ الْوَصَايَا: لاَ تَزْنِ. لاَ تَقْتُلْ. لاَ تَسْرِقْ. لاَ تَشْهَدْ بِالزُّورِ. لاَ تَسْلُبْ. أَكْرِمْ أَبَاكَ وَأُمَّكَ».

20 فَأَجَابَ وَقَالَ لَهُ:«يَا مُعَلِّمُ، هذِهِ كُلُّهَا حَفِظْتُهَا مُنْذُ حَدَاثَتِي».

21 فَنَظَرَ إِلَيْهِ يَسُوعُ وَأَحَبَّهُ، وَقَالَ لَهُ:«يُعْوِزُكَ شَيْءٌ وَاحِدٌ: اِذْهَبْ بِعْ كُلَّ مَا لَكَ وَأَعْطِ الْفُقَرَاءَ، فَيَكُونَ لَكَ كَنْزٌ فِي السَّمَاءِ، وَتَعَالَ اتْبَعْنِي حَامِلاً الصَّلِيبَ».

22 فَاغْتَمَّ عَلَى الْقَوْلِ وَمَضَى حَزِينًا، لأَنَّهُ كَانَ ذَا أَمْوَال كَثِيرَةٍ. "

انجيل مرقس 10

اولا السيد المسيح لم يقل له "لا تدعونى صالحا" بل قال "لماذا تدعونى صالحا. هناك فرق يا اخى الفاضل.

ثانيا السيد المسيح يقول عن نفسه "انا هو الراعي الصالح"

11 انا هو الراعي الصالح . والراعي الصالح يبذل نفسه عن الخراف .(يوحنا 10)

فأن كان يقول "ليس احد صالح الا واحد و هو الله" و ايضا يقول "انا هو الراعي الصالح"... فكيف نقول انه ينكر عن نفسه الطبيعه الألهيه؟؟

ايضا لكي تفهم اى نص مقدس يجب ان تطلع على تفسيره. و لكي لا اطيل عليك هنا سأضع لك بعض الروابط و يمكنك ان تقرأها بنفسك لو كنت مهتم بالموضوع و بنعمة ربنا انا تحت امرك في اى تساؤل جديد

+ موقع الأخ نيو مان: لماذا تدعونى صالحا

+ تفسير العهد الجديد للقمص تادرس يعقوب انظر جزء رقم 3 بعنوان الغنى و التبعيه للمسيح

+ موقع القديس تكلا: لماذا تدعونى صالحا؟

+ كيف يقول المسيح لا تدعونى صالحا؟

ثالثا انت تقول: ولا جواه اله يخليه صالح ولا هو جوه الاله

و هذا خطأ لأننا لا نؤمن ان السيد المسيح "جواه اله" ولا انه "جوة الأله". بل نؤمن بالفعل ان هناك اله واحد هو الرب الخالق العظيم القدير.

السيد المسيح هو كلمة الله الظاهر في الجسد. السيد المسيح انسان كامل ناسوته متحد بلاهوته لكن بلا اختلاط ولا تغيير. اى ان الناسوت لم يضفي طبيعه انسانيه على اللاهوت و اللاهوت لم يعطي الناسوت صفات الهيه.

بمعنى انه السيد المسيح لما كان بيجوع و يعطش و يتألم بالجسد....هذا لا يعنى ان اللاهوت يعطش و يجوع و يتألم.

الله لا يتجزأ و بالتالي جملة "اله جواه" ليس لها معنى.

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واكرر كلامى انى بس عاوز اوضح على مطاطيه الدين فى المسيحيه ان اللى يرفضه البابا زمان ممكن يقبله دلوقتى ومش يقبله بس ده يرضى عنه

سيدي الفاضل هذه المطاطيه لا توجد الا في مخيلتك!! فلم نري ان البابوات اختلفوا في اسس العقيده المسيحيه.

انت بتسأل عن زى المرأه و ملابسها و لا اعتقد ان ده من اسس العقيده. الناس بشكل عام مش المرأه بس لبسها بيتغير بتغير الزمان و المكان. المبدأ الثابت هو الأحتشام في المظهر و هذا لم و لن يختلف عليه احد.

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اما عن النصيحه للبس الغير لائق مبقاش موجود ولا انتى مش بتروحى الكنيسةولا فيه نصح ولا اعتراض

يعنى هو حضرتك اللي نايم قايم في الكنيسه مثلا؟؟؟ :)

طبعا باروح الكنيسه و باشوف سيدات و فتيات في منتهي الحشمه .... مع انى عايشه في مجتمع غربي :)

هناك النماذج السيئه و الجيده في كل مجتمع يا سيد احساس. كونك تركز فقط على النماذج السيئه فهذه نظره سلبيه للغايه و قد تعطي انطباع سئ عن شخصيتك و تفكيرك

اما عن النصح و الأرشاد فلا اعتقد انك تستطيع الجزم بوجوده من عدمه. فمع احترامي انت ما دخلتش كل كنيسه و سألت كل اب كاهن بيقول ايه للناس!!!

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ودلوقتى فى الغرب بيروحوا يتزوجوا وعليهم فى ايدهم والقسيس بقه بالنسباله ده شئ عادى وطبيعى

طرحت هذه النقطه في تعليق لك على مدونه الأخ خادم المسيح و كا ن ردي عليك وقتها انك لا تعرف ما دار من حوار بين هؤلاء و بين الكاهن اللي اجري اجراءات الزواج....

ولا تستطيع ان تجزم انهما لم يتوبا عن الخطيئه ولا ان الكاهن لم يرشدهما للتوبه.

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اما عن ردود فعل العلماء المسلمين فلن تختلف فى الثوابت وللمسلمين ائمة ومذاهب بياخد بيها المسلم وجبيلى اختلاف فى حلال او

و هل زى المرأه من ثوابت العقيده يا اخ احساس؟؟ :)

عموما هناك اختلافات بالفعل حول وجوب النقاب مثلا. و اختلافات في مواضيع اخري مثل حد الرده.

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متعمليش زى خادم المسيح اللى سايب اكبر ائمة التفسير زى ابن كثير والقرطبى والجلالين ورايح يجبلى تفسير لشيخ من مئات التفاسير اللى عندنامش معنا ساب الائمة الكبار واختار التفسير ده

و لو انى لم اكن احب التطرق للأسلاميات في ردي الا انك اثرت هذه النقطه و احب اعلق عليها بايجاز...

المشكله يا اخى الفاضل ان التفاسير كتيره موجوده.... و معنى اعتراضك على ما اختاره الأخ خادم المسيح انك شايف فيه اختلاف بين تفاسير الأئمه الكبار و بين التفسير اللي اختاره الأخ خادم المسيح....(يعنى فيه اختلافات اهو)...

مين يقول ان مفيش مسلم او جماعه مسلمين ياخدوا بتفسير غير اللي انت تاخد بيه و غير اللي محمد في ايران ياخد بيه و مصطفي في تركيا ياخد بيه؟!

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ولما قوتله انجيل برنابا اعترض وسخن وقال غير معترف بيه

ما علينا

لأ ما علينا ايه بقي!!! طالما حضرتك اثرت نقطه يبقي تحت امرك نناقشها بنعمة ربنا :)

انجيل برنابا ... او هاسميه "كتاب برنابا" لأن كلمة انجيل لا تنطبق عليه....

كتاب برنابا ده يا سيدي الفاضل و بأعتراف كتاب مسلمين و مسيحيين و ملحدين كمان تمت كتابته في القرن ال15 تقريبا...

و اليك بعض الأمثله على ذلك

د. محمد شفيق غربال: "هو إنجيل مزيف وضعه أوربي من القرن الخامس عشر وفي وصفه للوسط السياسي والديني في القدس أيام المسيح أخطاء جسيمة. كما يصرح على لسان عيسي أنه ليس المسيح إنما جاء مبشراً بمحمد الذي سيكون المسيح".

عباس محمود العقاد: بعد أن فند هذا الآنجيل إنتهى إلى أنه آنجيل مزيف: "فيه أخطاء لا يجهلها اليهودي المطلع على كتب قومه، ولا يرددها المسيحي المؤمن بالأناجيل، ولا يتورط فيها المسلم الذي يفهم ما في إنجيل برنابا من التناقض بينه وبين القرآن". (جريدة الأخبار 26/10/1959).

علي عبد الواحد وافي (رئيس قسم الفلسفة بجامعة القاهرة في كتابه الأسفار الثلاثية في الأديان السابقة للإسلام، يقول عن أنجيل برنابا: "بعض ما يشمل عليه هذا الكتاب نفسه يحمل على الظن بأنه موضوع (أي من وضع إنسان وليس موحى به)، فالإسلام ليس في حاجة إلى كتاب كهذا تحوم حوله شكوك كثيرة".

أ. د. محمود بن الشريف: يتحدث عن عدم وجود الأصل العبري للإنجيل، ووجود فقط نسخة إيطالية دليل على أنه لمفكر إيطالي إعترف بمحمد وبرسالته وبعيسى ورسالته فأخرج هذا الإنجيل ونسبه إلى برنابا.

و اليك بعض الروابط التى قد تفيدك في هذا الموضوع:

+ انجيل برنابا: خرافه غير متقنه

+ انجيل برنابا في ضوء التاريخ

+ إنجيل برنابا - شهادة زور بالقرآن و الإنجيل

+ انجيل برنابا

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معرفش بصراحه الكتاب المقدس بنسخته الحاليه امتى ومين اللى حدد الاناجيل الصح وحرق ومنع اناجيل تانى

مفيش اناجيل اتحرقت يا اخى الفاضل. يمكن حضرتك خلطت ما بين الأناجيل و بين حرق المصاحف على يد عثمان

عموما ليس من العيب ان لا تعلم لكن العيب انك ما تحاولش تعرف. و انا احييك على سؤالك مع انك لو كنت بحثت بنفسك كنت بكل سهوله هتوصل للي عايز تعرفه.

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يا ريت احسن كل مصدرى عن الموضوع ده اسلاميه

عظيم جدا قولك ده لأنه فعلا علشان تتعرف على عقيده معينه اى كانت هذه العقيده...لازم ترجع لمصادر هذه العقيده و تعرفها من منبعها.

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قبل ما نتكلم عن كيفية جمع اسفار الكتاب المقدس عايزة بس اعلق على نقطه اخري اثرتها:

بس فى ردك افتكرى النسخ الى بتظهر كل شويه من الاناجيل وليه حضرتك لما تكتشف نسخه جديده ترفضيها

عن اى نسخ تتحدث؟؟؟ هل تقصد "ترجمات"؟؟؟ ام تقصد نصوص غنوسيه مثل كتاب يهوذا مثلا او برنابا؟؟؟

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التدوينه كده طولت اوى :)

خلى موضوع الكتاب المقدس في تدوينه لوحده علشان ما يتشتتش.

موعدنا بعد الفاصل :)

ردا على سؤال "احساس لسه حي" بخصوص زى المرأه في المسيحيه

2009-09-07T13:15:00.003+10:00

قدسوا الرب الاله في قلوبكم مستعدين دائما لمجاوبة كل من
يسألكم عن سبب الرجاء الذي فيكم

بطرس 3:15

سؤال الأخ "احساس لسه حي" اللي طرحه في تعليق على تدوينه سابقه يقول:

انا جيت اوضحلك
السؤال بتاع شنوده وبولس اللى سالته لخادم المسيح ميت مره ومردش

بس اشرحلك شئ قبل السؤال كان الكلام عن لبس النساء فى المسيحية
والااسلام

انتى عارفه ان الحجاب هو اللبس الاسلامى للمراه اللى مفهوش
اختلاف

يعنى غيره سواء نقاب او مش حجاب اراء ممكن قليلين يؤمنوا بيها بس
عندنا الحجاب مفهوش خلاف تقريبا وعليه اجماع

وده من اول الاسلام لحد الف سنه قادمة

لان عندنا اساسيات لا تتغير فى ديننا مهما
تغير الزمان لان
الدين واحد

كان سؤالى للاستاذ خادم الممسيح

اللبس اللى بتلبسه المسيحيات دلوقتى امام القسيسين والبابوات لبس يقبله الدين المسيحى ولا يرفضه

يعنى اللى بتخش على البابا شتوده بليس عارى نوعا ما وهو لا يعترض على هذا اللبس لانه مش مخالف للمسيحية

لو دخلت على بولس بيه كان هيقول عليها ايه

ينفع اللى بتخش على شنوده بلبس دلوقتى ان تخش على بولس بنفس اللبس

اكيد لو دخلت على بولس كان هيقول حرام وغلط والله اعلم
كان الموضوع يوصل لايه

اما ما تغير الزمان فما لا يقبله بولس يقبله شنوده

ويمكن يتطور الزمان بدل الشئ ده غير محكوم بدين ومحكوم بتغير
الزمن ان يوم يخشوا على القسيس بالبكينى فى هاواى لان ده لبس هذا الزمن

المهم علشان متهيش وتردى بكلام كتير وتنسى الاجابه على سؤالى

هى ما يقبله شنوده من المسيحيات فى اللبس كان يقبله بولس الرسول ولا كان هيعترض عليه

مستنى اجابه واحده يا كان
هيقبله او يرفضه وبعد كده استنى ردى ونتحاور لو حبيتى

الاجابة اللى لم يرد عليها خادم المسيح رغم تكرارى للسؤال

الفاضل احساس لسه حى

سؤالك عزيزي و بالصيغه اللي تفضلت و طرحته بيها لا يمكننى ان ارد عليه بمجرد "نعم" او "لا". ليس لأنى اريد ان اتهرب من اجابه مباشره و لكن لأنك طرحت العديد من النقاط التى لا يمكن تجاهلها و بنيت سؤالك على افكار معينه يجب ان نناقشها لو اردت ان اكون امينه معك في الرد.

اولا: حضرتك تسألنى عن رد فعل البابا شنوده او بولس الرسول و كأنى اعلم الغيب او استطيع ان اتكلم بالنيابه عنهما!!! و ممكن ارد عليك اقول "مع احترامي...بتسألنى انا ليه ما تسألهم هم"!!!!!!!!:) .... لكن كل اللي اقدر اعمله انى استنتج او اخمن ردهم بناء على تعاليم السيد المسيح و الكتاب المقدس

طيب تعال نشوف الكتاب المقدس بيعلمنا ايه عن احتشام المرأه

سفر الأمثال 31 : 30
30 الحسن غش والجمال باطل . اما المرأة المتقية الرب فهي تمدح . 31 اعطوها من ثمر يديها ولتمدحها اعمالها في الابواب

رسالة بطرس الأولى 3 : 1

3 ولا تكن زينتكنّ الزينة الخارجية من ضفر الشعر والتحلي بالذهب ولبس الثياب 4 بل انسان القلب الخفي في العديمة الفساد زينة الروح الوديع الهادئ الذي هو قدام الله كثير الثمن

الرسالة الأولى إلى تيموثاوس 2 : 9

وكذلك ان النساء يزيّنّ ذواتهنّ بلباس الحشمة مع ورع وتعقل لا بضفائر او ذهب او لآلىء او ملابس كثيرة الثمن 10 بل كما يليق بنساء متعاهدات بتقوى الله باعمال صالحة .

واضح من النصوص السابقه ان الكتاب المقدس يعلمنا الأحتشام و السلوك بنقاء و تقوي.... و ده كلام يصلح لكل مكان و زمان لأنه يتعلق بسلوك الأنسان نفسه و ليس بالظروف المحيطه به.

و بناء عليه فلو القديس بولس او البابا شنوده او اى ااب كاهن شاف سيده او بنت مسيحيه لابسه لبس غير لائق فأعتقد انه هينصحها و يعلمها الكتاب بيقول ايه عن سلوك الانسان المسيحي

ثانيا صيغة سؤالك نفسها فيها خطأ. انت تسأل عن ما يرضي به البابا شنوده او بولس الرسول او اى اب كاهن. و انا اقول لك يا سيدي ا لفاضل اننا كمسيحيين لا نسعى لفعل ما يرضي اى انسان مهما كانت محبتنا له و اعتزازنا بيه و مهما كانت مكانته في الكنيسه

لأنه

(ينبغي ان يطاع الله اكثر من الناس(اعمال 5:29

و كما يقول القديس يوحنا ذهبي الفم

ليكن ضميرنا بعد الله قانوناً ورقيباً لنا في كافة الامور حتي اذا عرفنا مصدر هبوب الرياح وجهنا نحوها الاشرعة

يعنى انا كمسيحيه عندي تعاليم الكتاب المقدس و وصايا ربي اليّ... و فيّ الروح القدس يرشدنى .... و لازم اكون انا اول رقيب على نفسي بدون الحاجه لأى فرض خارجي يملي علي ما افعل و ما لا افعل. انا رقيب نفسي مسؤوله عن تصرفاتى و مسؤله عن سلوكي و مظهرى

ايمانى علاقه بيني و بين الهي ....علاقه محبه اريد فيها ان افعل ما يفرح قلبه و يرضيه .... ليس ما يرضي القديسين و الآباء الكهنه!!

ثالثا: انت تقول: اللبس اللي بتلبسه المسيحيات امام القسيسين

و اتساءل انا بدوري.... ما هو هذا اللبس الذي تقصده و هل حضرتك شفت كل بنت مسيحيه في العالم بتلبس ايه علشان تعمم قولك؟؟؟

اتمنى انى اكون وفقت في الرد على سؤالك و مرحبا بك و بأسئلتك و نقاشك

ربنا معاك

An Attorney and his Sons Hire a Mob of Thugs to Destroy an Historical Church in Rasheed, Egypt

2008-09-21T11:28:00.009+10:00

An attorney of law and his two sons who are public prosecutors, accompanied by a mob of about 50 thugs attacked an historical Roman Orthodox church in Rasheed, Egypt. The attack took place on the 19th September 2008 directly after the early morning Muslim prayers.

The attorney, Mohammed Moustafa Kamel and his sons Mohammed and Mahmoud and their mob destroyed the fences around the church and ransacked the church itself destroying invaluable icons and the remains of saints that were kept in the historic building. The church gatekeeper, Ashraf Fahmy Abdalla was injured in the attack, and many shops owned by Christians next to the church were broken into and looted
In spite of the church being in close proximity to the local police station, there was no attempt made by the police to stop the attacks.

Father Luca Assaad Awad from St Mark’s church in Rasheed, and who leads prayers in the attacked Roman Orthodox church also, says he doesn’t understand the reason for the barbaric actions taken by the attackers. Mr. Mohammed Moustafa Kamel claims that he bought the almost 1300 year old church and the shops next to it from the previous Roman Orthodox bishop. The current Patriarch denies any knowledge of this sale.

It is worth noting that there has been an agreement between the Coptic Orthodox church and the Roman Orthodox church that the Copts may use the Roman Orthodox churches for prayers. Hence Father Luca has been holding mass celebrations in the historic church.

Dr. Naguib Gobrail, president of the Egyptian Association for Human Rights condemned the attacks especially that the perpetrators are law professionals whose responsibility is to uphold the law and ensure justice for all citizens. He also condemned the lack of action on the part of the police who failed to prevent this barbaric attack on a place of worship. Dr. Gobrail wonders if the attack was on a Muslim place of worship, that we would have seen such inaction.

Sources:

Copts-United

Free Copts

Muslim Extremists Call for Violence against Christian Monasteries in Egypt

2008-09-15T10:39:00.002+10:00

O people of Islam come to martyrdom in Ramadan…the month of repentance and forgiveness

Groups of Islamic extremists have published a call for jihad against the monasteries of Wadi-El-Natrun on their websites.Their call comes soon after the rumor spread by the prominent Islamic figure Dr. Zaghloul El Naggar claiming that a Christian convert to Islam has been detained in a Wadi-El-Natrun monastery and subsequently murdered by the Coptic church after refusing to denounce Islam. It is worth noting that the woman in question had declared four years ago that she never converted to Islam and that she was “born a Christian and will die a Christian”

El Naggar made his accusation in an interview with Egyptian newspaper “Al-Khamis” and failed to provide any evidence to support his claims. Unfortunately this isn’t the first instance where Dr. El Naggar makes unsubstantiated accusations against the church and Christian community of Egypt. Last year he claimed that the church is secretly proselytizing to Muslims and converting them to Christianity in large numbers. He also claimed that he knows of the hideouts where these christenings take place and that he has documentations to support his claims.

To this date he has not provided any evidence to support either claim. It seems that there is no need for providing evidence to incite extremists to demand revenge especially during the month of Ramadan “the month of repentance and forgiveness” according to the extremist website. The emotive call to jihad is demanding of Muslims to wake up and strike the infidel Jews and Christians with a fist of iron. As well as blowing up the monasteries of the “murderous Christians” and reducing them to ashes, they are demanding Egyptian Muslims rise up and attack the Israeli embassy and also the building that houses the office of State Security.An

excerpt of the text published on the website:

“Blow up the monasteries with the worshippers of the crucifix inside them
Do not leave them a safe means of escape

O people of Islam come to martyrdom in Ramadan…the month of repentance and forgiveness

Tear up Egyptian Christians and shed their blood
Burn the ground under their feet and let bombs rain on them from the sky

Let the volcano of anger explode in the face of the office of Infidel Security”

AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT TO ALL NEWS MEDIA

2007-06-25T13:56:00.000+10:00

The American Coptic Association, the International Christian Union, and other National and International Human Rights Organizations in and outside of the United States will hold Solidarity Rally on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 in front of the United Nation building between 44th and 45th street in New York City between 12: 00 Noon until 2:00 PM.

The purpose of the rally is to protest the bloodshed, murder and destruction of the property,
recently incurred by the Christian Community in Egypt. Although this has been happening for
many years, these attacks have been intensifying and more frequent. The criminal perpetrators
are using swords to kill, and the government of Egypt looks the other way. This appears to be
a deliberate campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Copts (Christians of Egypt) carried out
by fanatical Muslims and blessed by Mubarak's government!!

Copts are the largest minority in the world without rights! A stable Egypt is very important in
that part of the world. The atrocities facing the Copts exemplify the intolerance by the Mubarak
regime towards non-Muslim minorities. It is therefore the duty of every freedom loving person
to speak out in defense of the persecuted Coptic community, particularly since the Copts in
Egypt are unable to defend themselves or speak out.

Your coverage of this rally is crucial in order to shed a light on the persecution of non-Muslim
minorities in the Middle East. Your participation and subsequent coverage of the rally would
serve as a reminder to those in the Middle East who spread intolerance, hate, persecution and
oppression, that their actions are noticed and condemned. It would support the basic Human
Rights of Middle East minorities such as the Copts and others. We believe that a free media is
the voice of the weak, voiceless, and the oppressed.

Thank you for your anticipated support. For further information please contact:

Monir A. Dawoud, MD.
President of I.C.U. (International Christian Union)
President of A.C.A. (American Coptic Association)
E-mail:
mdmd1239@aol.com
Fax: (201) 863 6600
Phone: (201) 863 6600 Office
(201) 424 1001 Cellular

Attack on St Mary’s Church, Dakhlia

2007-06-14T16:19:00.000+10:00

Tuesday 12/06/2007
Attack on St Mary’s Church, Dakhlia

Two children entered St Mary’s church in Dakhlia during a church meeting and started to throw rocks at the congregation. Shortly after, there were calls from the surrounding mosques urging Muslims to act. A number of Muslims armed with rocks, knives and small weapons as well as bottles filled with acid, congregated around the church and threw the rocks and bottles at the church building.

Security forces have intervened and have cordoned off the area around El Geish street, Dakhlia. The clashes continue with some Muslims threatening police with the acid filled bottles from the balconies of some buildings in the area.

Reports from some residents of the area in question confirm there have been injuries resulting from the attack. Furthermore, it is reported that some Muslims are roaming the surrounding streets armed with acid filled bottles, calling out to Coptic residents to come down to the street!

Translated from:http://www.freecopts.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13384 http://coptreal.com/forum/VBForum/forumdisplay.php?f=56
__________________

IGNORANCE; Thy Will be Done. In Malaysia as it is in Egypt

2007-06-03T13:48:00.000+10:00

MALAYSIA: HIGH COURT HALTS WOMAN’S EFFORT TO LEGALLY CONVERT

Judges rule Lina Joy must seek Muslim tribunal’s approval to remove ‘Islam’ from ID.
KUALA LUMPUR, June 1 (Compass Direct News) – Malaysia’s highest court on Wednesday (May 30) handed down a decision that prevents Lina Joy, a Muslim convert to Christianity, from having her conversion legally recognized.

In a 2-1 majority decision, the Federal Court ruled that the National Registration Department (NRD) was right in requiring Joy to produce a declaration from the sharia (Islamic law) court stating that she is no longer a Muslim before it would remove the word “Islam” from her identity card.

The ruling comes after a seven-year legal battle to have Joy’s conversion officially recognized.

Her final legal option would be to ask for a review of the Federal Court decision. If she applies for review and it is accepted, then her case would be heard before an expanded panel of either five or seven judges.

Joy was quoted in the May 31 local daily The Star as saying through her lawyer, Benjamin Dawson, that she was disappointed with the court decision.

“The Federal Court has not only denied me that right but [denied it] to all Malaysians who value fundamental freedoms,” she said.

read more here

+++

Horraayyy for the justice and tolerance of Islam and the rule of Islam!!!!

Beware: This is a strictly ONE-WAY religion

2007-05-16T23:44:00.000+10:00

Ever considered becoming a Muslim? Think carefully! Because it's a strictly one way road... moreover, if you live in Egypt, the blessed government and even the juidiciary system will enforce this rule

?Freedom of worship, they told you
They lied

well not entirely...you are after all free to "become a Muslim". But woe to you should you decide to turn back

?A constitution and rule of the law they said
!My friend you have been fooled

Read this

A decision by an Egyptian administrative court earlier last month has sent the Christian community into an uproar over what they have termed the continuation of religious intolerance by the government.

The controversial new law states that Christians who convert to Islam for whatever reason and wish to revert to their Christian status on identification papers are forbidden from doing so. Muslims converts to Christianity wishing to go back to being listed as followers of Islam, on the other hand, are not barred from such an act.

Christian clergy and intellectuals in the country have expressed resentment toward the ruling, calling it a "step backward" and contradictory to Egypt's citizenship laws. They argue that the court's decision undoubtedly moves Egypt nearer to being a theocratic state.

In Egypt, Christians have been known to convert to Islam in order to marry Muslims - non-Muslim men must convert on paper to Islam before being allowed to marry Muslim women. The new law, the government argues, is an attempt to maintain religious integrity, but many Egyptians believe it is a move to ensure that Muslim numbers are maintained.

"As a Muslim, I say that there is no limit to the freedom of religion and, without it, heaven and hell would be ... meaningless as the Koran assures the individual freedom of belief and disbelief [and] in return [people] are responsible for their choice," Mohammed Munir Mogahed, a founding member of Egyptians Against Religious Segregation, said recently in the Egyptian daily, Al Masry Al Youm.

Mogahed added that the Muslim holy text did not give rules concerning apostasy, arguing that religious scholars' opinions on the matter had been controversial.

"We can compare this issue to citizenship, as every Egyptian has the right to give up his or her citizenship and take on a different one, and there is nothing against him or her" for doing so, he pointed out.

The case began in 2005 when 45 Christians wishing to convert back to Christianity from Islam asked Egypt's ministry of interior for new identification papers and birth certificates that stated they were Christians.

The interior ministry refused to issue the papers saying it didn't see a legal reason for doing so, regarding the petitioners' request as playing with religion to suit their needs.

The Egyptian constitution grants freedom of religion to all citizens.

Meanwhile, Christian clergy have also voiced their concern over the new law, saying that Christians must take a serious stand against the law and object to the oppression of the government.

Morqous Aziz, a Coptic priest, recently told reporters that there would be an appeal of the ruling.

"This is ... oppression against all religions and the [Egyptian] Constitution. The Pope will do something about the matter," Aziz said.

The decision comes as religious tensions in Egypt are mounting. Last year, the Supreme Authoritative Court of Egypt ruled that Bahais were not allowed to be identified by their religious beliefs on their personal documents.

The court's decision upheld government policy to deny Bahais the right to receive identification cards, birth certificates, education, and even medical care, compelling many to declare themselves on official documents as followers of one of the three officially permitted religions (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) - in effect, committing fraud - out of necessity.

Meanwhile, Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights director Hossam Bahgat told the Middle East Times that the controversial law was a "manipulation of Islam," reflecting moral prejudice by the government.

"The right to freedom of religion, including the right to change one's religion, is guaranteed under the Egyptian Constitution, the Civil Status Law, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and, notably, Islamic Sharia [Muslim law]."

In December 2004, Egypt's Grand Mufti, Ali Gomaa, issued a fatwa (religious edict) on the matter, saying that those who return to Christianity after adopting Islam were "apostates."

"The religion of Islam vis-à-vis the state and the social structure is a matter to be left to the administration, according to an assessment of benefits and harms, and of how this conduct is in accordance with the constitution and the applicable laws, and of its impact on social security and national peace," Gomaa said in 2004.

The ruling has left many activists sour, especially those striving for a more open and tolerant society in the Arab world's largest nation.

"Islam, in my opinion, is a religion of mercy and justice, and it cannot be treated as a trap [so that] once you are in it, there is no way out," Mogahed maintained.

and tell me, why is Islam so scared to let people choose? Why is the governemnt so determined to keep religion in the forefront of the average Egyptian's life?

Where is the freedom of worship we so often hear about, and which is supposedly guaranteed by Islam and protected by the law in our Egypt???????

We're a Nation of Lying Convicts and Our Women are Just Exposed Meat

2007-01-13T00:13:00.000+11:00

Yes ladies and gentlemen this what we are according to the person who is considered the spiritual leader of the Muslim community in Australia.

I had just had the displeasure of watching an interview with Sheikh Hilali on the popular Egyptian show "Al Qahira Al Yawm" (Cairo Today). An interview that has been talked about in last night's news, an which my father watched when it aired and taped when he knew the infamous sheikh would be on.

I was watching it and thinking...man I wish i could translate this so I could laugh at him later when they try to weasle him outa this one too. But fortunately The Australian has done my homework for me

Interviewer1: Man was born a man. What differentiates him from the animal is that he can control his behaviour and feelings.

Interviewer2: Controlling one’s behaviour and feelings is proportional, and it cannot be measured. There is a difference between what ‘should be’ and what is ‘reality’. Reality is not having a woman dancing in the street and then we are surprised with cases of harassment. One plus one equals two. Put a flame near petrol and you get a fire.

Interviewer1: So you are saying that the man raped the woman, and the woman is responsible because she was uncovered.

Interviewer2: One, two and three are the woman. The man is number four.

Interviewer1: We go to a commercial break and when we come back we’ll talk about this fatwa and what it caused, and about what the sheikh said about a case where a man had raped a woman, and about the sentencing… we would like to know your opinion.

(commercial break)

Interviewer1: Back to our topic, and proportionality. Say a man entered a bank and saw that a man had left some money in it…

Interviewer2: Left it where?

Interviewer1: At the bank, on a table. He forgot it and left.

Interviewer2: He left it there and went away? If the money is not kept safe, wouldn’t it be subject to getting lost or not?

Interviewer1: As a human being, would I take it?

Interviewer2: A decent human being wouldn’t, but are all humans decent? And, secondly, if the money was safe, then his hand should be cut off. If a man put money on the footpath, we shouldn’t steal. We shouldn’t touch money that is not ours.

Interviewer1: Why do you want to blame the woman? You want to blame the woman more than the man.

Interviewer2: He left his money on the footpath. If a man let his daughter be uncovered and go wearing stretch or a swimsuit infront of men…

Interviewer1: So you are now finding a reason or an excuse for every man that harasses a woman in the street?

Interviewer2: If the woman is not adhering to dress code, then she is giving him an excuse. 15:20

……..

15:58 Interviewer2: I am saying that we do not justify the sin. But we are prioritising the responsibilities, for the viewers to understand. We are not justifying the mistake, but prioritising the responsibilities. What do you think, sheikh?

Hilali: Had I argued this religious point using this logic, Australia would have been devastated, by how they would have understood it.

Interviewer2: How do you evaluate the situation?

Hilali: I have lived in Australia for more than a quarter of a century, and I know the basics of the work of the calling to Islam, and I understand the Western mentality, particularly the Australian one. And I know that the Australian law guarantees freedoms to the point of insanity. We have a third sex, in between. Neither male nor female. It does not belong to masculinity or femininity. And there are churches that conduct marriages between same sex people. At the same time, an Australian Christian sect has evolved that forbids television, radio, mobile phones, university studies… You see to what extent?

Interviewer2: They’re not a Muslim group?

Hilali: No. A Christian group.

Interviewer1: Each religion has its extremists.

Hilali: Still, the reversed standard, is that Mr Howard says, “That’s up to you.” That’s their right of expression, and moreover, they will give them assistance and entitlements of social services…

Interviewer2: I support them in their point of view. The Western society has its own law that it is governed by, and they accepted to host us in it. So we should either coexist with their laws or don’t go there to start with.

Hilali: I was giving advice to my daughters. It is my religious duty to…

Interviewer1: For the Muslim woman inside his mosque, he wasn’t overstepping that.

Interviewer2: Exactly. They are free to live their lives as they want. That’s the right thing to say. We are not assaulting anyone, criminalising anyone or…

Interviewer1: What happened is an overstepping with the fatwa. What you said was that someone was sentenced to jail for rape, and you said that it was no one’s right to…

Hilali: No, I will show you the wrong standards, and the reversed values. They have no democracy and no freedom. They are the biggest liars and the most unjust, the Western peoples, especially the English people. The Anglo-Saxons arrived in Australia in shackles, while we paid for our tickets. We paid for our tickets from our own pockets, and we went there free. So we are more entitled to Australia than them. Australia is not Anglo-Saxon, Islam is deep rooted in Australian soil and it preceded the English arrival there.

Interviewer2: But generalisation is rejected. Generalisation is rejected, you are learned and should know. The West has cultural values and it has advantages…

20:40 Hilali: No doubt. I am talking about… about… about… about their reversed values… I lost my train of thought. About controlling the issues… I was addressing my advice to the Muslim woman, the Australian woman was not meant by it. 19:45

(Telephone caller)
………………..

23:23 Interviewer1: Here is an example, a newspaper like The Australian, which seems to be wide circulating, it is honourable to see an Egyptian sheikh appearing in this size on the front page. It is something we are proud of indeed, he is the mufti of Australia…

Interviewer2: This is an example of centrism, which you dream of yourself. The sheikh said that he is an example of centrism… 23:50

…………..

26:10 Interviewer1: How’s the situation in Australia as far as you are concerned?

Hilali: Without any exaggeration, I can confirm that this crisis has given the Islamic calling in Australia the greatest push.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

Between outrage and indignation...and laughing my little heart out...I was lost to see why the Muslim community of Australia insists on keeping this man as a sort of spiritual leader...or whatever it is that he does!

I am at loss at why he wants to stay here...amongst decendants of convicts and loose women?

Forgot to say...a part that wasn't traslated by the Australian had him talking about the incident where a group of Muslim Lebanese boys raped a young Australian girl...the respectable sheikh said that it no rape! it was in fact a rendezvous and the sex was consentual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am flabbergasted as to how he arrived at the conclusion that Islam is deep rooted in Aussie soil?!?!?!

How is it that the Australian law guarantees freedoms to the point of insanity

YET

They have no democracy and no freedom

??????????????????????????????????????????????

Sheikh Hilali: You shame both your countries...Egypt and Australia.

If this country is so unjust and terrible...you have the freedom to leave it to those who appreciate what it offers.

Merry Christmas! (and a white one at that!!!)

2006-12-25T23:11:00.000+11:00

Merry Christmas to all the brothers and sisters in Christ celebrating today.

It seems someone prayed and wished very hard for a white Aussie Christmas...and what d'ya know...they got their wish!

In Victoria today temperatures plumetted to around 11 degrees, and it rained and even hailed at times. For brief minutes, the grass was covered with white making the picture look positively "Northern hemisphere" kind of Christmas......in the middle of summer!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I hope you had a great Christmas, whatever the weather was for you :)

Auguri Cannavaro!

2006-12-22T18:22:00.000+11:00

Cannavaro wins Fifa player crown

Italy's World Cup-winning captain Fabio Cannavaro has been named Fifa World Player of the Year.
The award polls votes from national team coaches and captains and Cannavaro beat three-time winner Zinedine Zidane and reigning champion Ronaldinho.
Real Madrid central defender Cannavaro, 33, was crowned European Footballer of the Year in November.
"It's a great honour for me to be here because it has been an incredible season," said Cannavaro.
He added: "The competition is scary, so strong. It's not usual for a defender to sit between Ronaldinho and Zidane.
"Of course it must be a great compliment for the coaches I've had this year.
"It also underscores the way I am playing - and look at the matches we are playing in the teams I've had, and at Real.
"I can't ask for anything else, with the World Cup and Golden Ball award - you can't do any better than that."
Brazil's Marta won the women's award ahead of Germany's Renate Lingor and Kristine Lilly of the USA.

-*-*-*-*

Me thinks this verrry good year for Italian football!!! Me happy!! Verryyy Happy :)

The Free Copts: Back and Stronger Than Ever

2006-12-22T17:30:00.000+11:00

SOURCE

The Free Copts is back online. Our resolve is even stronger to speak up against injustice and hatred.

And a note of thanks goes out to thise who hacked the site:
You have proven that we are effective and strong...you have admitted that we are a force to be reckoned with. You have shown the world how incapable you are of defending your views rationally.

Thank you whoever you are, you have done us a great service!
God Bless :)

Frederik; There's a Quran Under the Xmas Tree!!!

2006-12-21T22:11:00.000+11:00

OK! I know it's absolutely ridiculous...but I've just spent the past two hours trying to verify this report by Alarabiya.net. They are claiming that "Danish Chrostians" are going absolutely bananas buying copies of teh Quran as Xmas gifts!!!!!!!!!

Yes I know, it's hillarious...it doesn't make sense! But I thought I'd Google it anyway...in Arabic and in English (damn it I wish I knew Danish)...and couldn't find anything.

Of course, Danish people could very well be buying the Quran. But what made me laugh so hard that I almost fell off my chair, is teh way Alarabiya reported it. And of course the readers comments.

It was reported and commented on as a victory of Islam over the infidel Danes who dessecrated the prophet of Islam by the infamous cartoons, and their steadfast defence of this...this...thing...they call "freedom of expression"?!!

Many readers launched into Quranic verses and pleas to Allah to guide the infidels to the truth of Islam. A couple of readers who were "switched on" warned their bretheren not to fall for this obvious trick by the Danes to buy the affection of the Muslim world and put an end to the boycott (ooohhh you're a clever bunch! couldn't pull the wool over your eyes!)

Whether this is true or not...and no matter what the reason Danes ar going crazy over the Quran...the main thing I came out with:
I really...really...pityy the naive ignorance of those who do not see outside the boundaries of their own world!

Copts Need Not Apply

2006-12-20T21:38:00.000+11:00

A couple of days ago I read something in an Egyptian newspaper that made me rub my eyes...look around in confusion...and ask my husband "what year is it??"

The newspaper: Al Masry Alyoum (The Egyptian Today)
The news item: Islamic Fayssal Bank Refuses To Allow Copts To Buy Shares

For some reason, I felt life go black and white around me, and I expected to see a band with a Coptic cross on my arm, and the word "Copts" garffitied on my house.

Then I remembered it's 2006
and humanity has supposedly moved on from this kind of hatred and discrimination

Here's an article written in the same newspaper about this very same subject..by Ahmed Al Sawy. In it he condemns the Egyptian government for allowing this absurdity to take place, at a time when sectarian tension is already at a boiling point.

"
لا أعتقد أن البنك السعودي يستطيع أن يفعل ذلك في أي بلد يحترم قانونه ودستوره، وربما لا تستطيع كل البنوك السعودية المتعاملة بنظام المعاملات الإسلامية داخل أراضي المملكة حرمان غير المسلم من التعامل معها، إلا أن بنك فيصل علي ما يبدو وجد في مصر نظاماً قانونياً رخواً،وحكومة لا تملك القدرة أو الرغبة، أو الإرادة لحماية مواطنيها ضد الانتهاك الصارخ لحقهم في المواطنة داخل الوطن الذي يحملون جنسيته.
"
I do not believe that the Saudi bank could do this in a country which respects the law and the constitution. I don't even believe that Saudi Islamic banks operating within the Kingdom (of Saudi Arabia) can prevent non Muslims from dealing with them. But it seems Fayssal Bank has found in Egypt a weak legislative system and a government lacking interest in protecting her citizens against such blatant violation of their rights, in their own country!

"
تأسس بنك فيصل الإسلامي في مصر عام ١٩٧٧، وتم تسجيله لدي البنك المركزي المصري كبنك تجاري يخضع لأحكام قانون البنك المركزي، ومع ذلك فرض المادة ١٢ من نظامه الأساسي علي قانون البنك المركزي المنظم لعمله، تلك المادة تنص علي عدم جواز قبول مساهمة غير المسلمين، وعدم جواز نقل ملكية أسهم البنك إلا للمسلمين
"
Islamic Fayssal Bank was established in Egypt in 1977, and was registered as a commercial bank with Al Bank Al Markazy Al Massry (The Egyptian Central Bank), and it (Fayssal Bank) is supposed to be governed by the same regulations as the Central bank. However, Fayssal bank succeeded in enforcing a part of its own regulatons...the part which states refusal of non Muslim shareholders.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

This was also reported by alarabiya.net...but nevermind the actual report, as always the readers comments are more shocking.

2 - النصاري في مصر واخدين حقهم وكفايه اللي هم ما بيدفعوش الجزية
محمد بلال من مصر 18/12/2006 م، 08:20 مساء (السـعودية) 05:20 مساء (جرينيتش) النصاري في مصر واخدين حقهم وزيادة

Mohammad Bilal-Egypt
The Christians in Egypt have their rights. It's bad enough they aren't paying "jizya" (the Islamic tax forced on the non-Muslim inhabitants of the lands invaded by the Arabs)

5 - بنك فيصل الاسلامى
احمد على احمد 18/12/2006 م، 08:25 مساء (السـعودية) 05:25 مساء (جرينيتش) هذا اسمه والمسلمين يقوموا بلايداع فيه بعيد عن البنوك الاخرى حتى يبتعدوا عن شبهة الربا وهذا ما يجدونه فى هذا البنك وبالطبع اذا تم بيع اسهمه لغير مسلم سوف يقوم عدد كبير من المسلمين بانهاء تعاملاتهم مع البنك وهذا يكون خطرا عليه. وشكرأ والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته.

Ahmad Ali Ahmad
This is an Islamic bank...Muslims deal with it to get away from other non Islamic banks. If the shareholders are not Muslim..Muslims won't put their money there and this will harm the bank's interests! Thank you and Assalam alaykom wa rahmatu Allah wa barakato (the Islamic greeting)

and many more that I honestly felt too sick with disgust from their mentality to have to force myself to translate...

Although to be fair there were great comments also from Muslim readers who said this was attrocious and reaffirmed their belief in equal rights for all Egyptians and no discrimination based on faith.

Yet, such fair and tolerant Muslim mentalities seem to be a minority in the midst of the raging hatred and ignorance.

This isn't my Egypt! This can't be my Egypt!

If You Can't Beat'em, Hack'em

2006-12-19T21:57:00.000+11:00

In a demonstration of just how morally and intellectually banckrupt they are...a group of Islamists who call themselves "The Islamic Warrior Crew" have hacked yet another website. This time it's personal...they hacked the Free Copts website!

You see, they had previously hacked into some sites which contained a religious forum where Islam was discussed as a religion and ideology. In fine Islamic fashion, they were outraged by the fact their religion is being discussed and debated...so they did the only thing they know how: shut them up!

Although the religious dialogue section of the Free Copts forum, and indeed the whole forum, was regulated by the admin group so that no insults to any faith, race or person were tolerated...it seems our juvenile group of warriors found something that lead to this dummy spit.

So after I got over the initial surprise, then the fits of laughter at the public tantrum, then finally the pitty for those who possess no means of dealing with different opinions except to try to eliminate them...

I got thinking....

I thought about how in this day and age, we advocate tolerance and co existence. We talk about living harmoniously together in this ever shrinking world of ours. We put checks and balances to guarantee the rights that we enjoy are protected. We teach our children to be accepting of others and not to generalise...never to generalise.

But I ask, and I especially ask those who say "The image of Islam on the world stage has been corrupted"....I ask you to take a moment to consider...

Who exactly do you believe is harming the image of Islam?

And how do you expect Islam to be accepted by the world, when Muslims do not accept the world....or I should say the do not accept anyone or anything that is different to them??

Impending attack on Archangel Michael church, Alexandria

2006-12-01T00:20:00.000+11:00

My first post in a very long time...and unfortunately, bad news!
Please see below for the details of the planned attacks (The Free Copts).
May the Lord protect His church and keep the peace in our Egypt.

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*

Written by Rasha Nour
Thursday, 30 November 2006

What is happening to Alexandria? The city we call “Bride of the Mediterranean”…the melting pot of so many cultures. The city that so awed Alexander the Great, that he bestowed his name on her…her glory immortalizing his name.Today, this beautiful city is trampled with hatred and intolerance…even smeared with the hands of terrorism. After the distant years of glory where Christians, Muslims and Jews lived harmoniously…Italians, Greek and Egyptians co-existed peacefully.

I’ll never forget the day my grandfather died in Upper Egypt, and my mother left us with our Greek neighbor. Auntie Nickilous treated us with love and kindness, until our parents returned…never complaining to them about our antics…how we mocked her children and made fun of her name.That was Alexandria! Where we sat at the beach…breathed in her glorious history and the spirit of love and strength of youth.

But what do we see in Alexandria today?After the incident of Moharram Bek, where the church of St. George and St. Antonious was surrounded by mobs of angry Muslims, after a CD of a church play “I was blind and now I see” was leaked to them by the State Security…who are obviously colluding with the Islamic groups, and have obviously been successful in using the groups to fulfill their agenda and terrorizing the Coptic church.

And after the events surrounding the murder of the elderly Coptic man, Sobhi while he was praying in church during Passion week 2006, and the setting of a church on fire…

Last Friday 11/24/2006, another attack was planned, this time the target is the Church of Archangel Michael in Moustafa Kamel, Raml Alexandria.The attack was planned by the following parties’ involvement:

Sheikh Moustafa Mohammad of “Al Fatih Al Islami” mosque, which is considered a hotbed of extremism in Alexandria’s mosques. He also owns an Islamic publishing center called “Nashr Al Fatih Al Islami” His mobile number is 0105013151,

Sheikh AbdulNasser Hussein,

Sheikh Khaled El Khateeb, a Palestinian businessman.

Islamic preacher, Sheikh Makram Abdul Raziq Kharrob, a lecturer of Islamic Jurisprudence at Al Azhar university, Samoha, Alexandria.

Sheikh Gaballa Abu El Makarim Gaballa, also a a lecturer of Islamic Jurisprudence at Al Azhar university, Samoha, Alexandria.

Sheikh Hisham Mohammad Mekkawy, a dentist and the president of Qasr Rawan hospital, Salsabeel medical center, and the charitable center for dentistry in Alexandria. His mobile numbers are 0125745602, and 0123782366.

The agreement is to surround and attack the church of Archangel Michael after the Muslim Friday prayer on 12/01/2006. The reason for this planned attack is the leaking of some rumors by the State Security to these Islamic groups, that the church is involved in preaching Christianity to Muslims, and the name of Father Augustinous Morris was specifically mentioned.

The church is indeed active in serving the Coptic youth and providing spiritual support to them, especially in universities…thereby laying the foundation to produce good, loyal Egyptian citizens.

It is noteworthy that there are signs being prepared for the planned action, with “No to Preaching to Muslims” and “No to Baptizing Female Minors”!This is a call to president Hosni Mubarak, and those in charge at State Security, …enough is enough,

Rasha Nour11/29/2006

+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+

Isn't it ironic? A preacher whose job is to call others to Islam, plans an attack on a church he suspects of doing the very thing he does: preaching!!!!

The Murder of Egyptian Dignity

2006-09-10T01:32:00.000+10:00

This is a time when awareness of human rights is probably at its highest. We have organizations all over the world that speak for the oppressed, seek news on abuses, demand justice and spread the awareness of what we are entitled to.

As one of those fortunate enough to live in a true democracy, I and no doubt most of those around me are well aware of what we are entitled to. We have certain expectations that we are protected by the law as long as we abide by it. When we see a policeman or woman we do believe they are here “To serve and Protect” us. We know we have the right to feel safe in our communities…we have the right to enjoy our lives because we are good, free citizens who contribute to our societies.

We are entitled to our dignity!

Amgad Mokhtar Hussein, a young Egyptian Muslim man, was to find out that as an Egyptian he had no right to such expectations. His story is stranger than fiction…or so it seemed to one accustomed to living in a society where rule of law is respected. In fact, hearing him tell what happened to him made me absolutely sick with horror and despair. (He was interviewed by Amr Adeeb on the popular program Al Qahira Alyaoum, or Cairo Today)

Amgad and his wife are American University graduates, and he works for a cinema production company…he has practically no active involvement in any political movement.

Amgad, his wife and a friend were traveling by bus to Al Qusseir (a town on the coast of the red sea). The bus was stopped by the police for an ID check…a regular occurrence on Egyptian roads and highways, particularly after the recent attacks on Sharm Al Sheikh. One of the policemen asked Amgad if he had a work permit. Amgad replied that he is going to Al Qusseir for holidays and does not intend on working there. The policeman oddly repeated the question several times, apparently not satisfied by Amgad’s answers. Then he asked Amgad to get off the bus.

What ensued is a series of events that involve acts of torture to rival some of those we read about in Abu Ghreib in Iraq. Amgad was taken into an office and beaten severely by a mob of lower ranking officers. When Amr Adeeb asked him what he did while they were beating him, Amgad simply said “Initially I was trying to block the blows…but after a while, I was overwhelmed especially that I didn’t know why this was happening”

Throughout the ordeal, the first officer dished out insults to the victim. If you’re thinking he was just swearing at him, think again! He made Amgad say those things aloud about himself threatening to beat him if he doesn’t comply…then beat him anyway each time he said them.

At one stage, he made the other officers strip Amgad off his pants and cuff his hands to a desk. Then they proceeded to pull out Amgad’s pubic hair.

Amgad was then made to lie on his stomach and crawl on his bare stomach and groin along the room. There was reference in Amgad’s account to the officer calling to the others to bring “a fake ###” along with references to raping Amgad. Amgad said the officer said to him “I’ll show you. You know I’m really into women and I prefer men” clearly threatening him with rape. Then asked Amgad to kiss his shoes and the shoes of all the others present.

Meanwhile, and mercifully unaware of the horrors her husband is experiencing, Amgad’s wife was pacing outside the very building waiting for him and making some calls to her family. You see this couple is from well off and well connected families. When Amgad heard his wife’s voice while alone in his torture room, he understood she must be just outside the room and that she would also hear him if he yelled out loud enough. So he did…he yelled out that he was being tortured.

It’s obvious that the family connections served Amgad then. It seems that the officer involved also started to understand just how much trouble he’d got himself into. Because another officer came into the room, gave Amgad his clothes and told him to put them on. Amgad was also offered some tea!!!!!

Of course, and again due to Amgad’s family’s prominence, this officer has been suspended and an investigation is currently underway.

But it’s bigger than just this. This isn’t about one incident…this is about abuse of power and corruption. It’s about the average Egyptian who has no rich father or family connections…who is speaking on his behalf?????????????? Who’s making him/her feel safe in their own country??????

I sincerely thank the Lord for Amgad’s safety, and I applaud his courage in coming forward and speaking up so that justice can take its course, and the guilty is punshed. Maybe, just maybe, it will deter any other lowlife from repeating these atrocities.

Time and time again we see that those responsible for protecting Egyptians and upholding the law are the first to trample the law. When will it stop? When are we going to have a real and a free judiciary system?

Egyptian dignity is being murdered over and over again…is there even any hope left that we will one day revive it?

***

Some references (sorry all in Arabic)

Link
Link
Link

Egyptian Christians Spend NIght in Prayer

2006-09-10T00:21:00.000+10:00

In about two hours time (at 7:00pm in Cairo on Saturday 09/09/06), Egyptian Christians of all denominations will gather in the Cathedral of St Mark the Apostle in Al Abbasseya. They plan to spend the night in prayer to ask the Lord for strength and justice. This gesture is also intended to convey a message to the Egyptian authorities: We've had enough! They are asking for justice for all...regardless of faith...justice for all Egyptians.

The great thing about this gathering, apart from the fact that we are finally speaking up more and more, is the unity demonstrated by the joining of Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Christians.

Being so far away, I can only pray with them from out here in Australia...the physical distance shortened by our bond in Christ. So please join us in prayer that the injustice experienced by so many of our fellow Egyptians would come to an end.

God willing, I'll keep you updated with any further news on this.

Reflections on Hani Sarofim's Murder

2006-08-16T17:33:00.000+10:00

Predictably, my last post on Hani Sarofim's murder attracted many comments. There were some that I attempted to answer in the comment section but found that it would take so much space, besides they raised important points that I needed to respond to. So I preferred to post it in a separate post.

I'll start by addressing Mohammed's comment, because I feel it represents the views of many Muslims; particularly Egyptian Muslims, on the issue.

With all my respect to Hani,but he wasn't effective in his family to make the officer cares to force him.

I'm sorry mate, i don't understand what you mean by this. Can you please explain it?

If you had read the statement released by his familyyou would see the following:

"Hani was supposed to be on an official vacation of eight days, which would end on July 30th 2006. He also had two permissions for one other vacation, which would have finished on August 13th 2006"
"كان باجازتة الرسمية ثمانية ايام نهايتها فى 30-7-2006 وعمل تصريحين باجازة ثانية من 4-8-2006 حتى 13-8-2006 "

Now don't you think this is suspicious? What kind of officer gets a 8 day break, returns to service only to get another break within a week? Why was there a permission issued for his holiday...and not one but two???

His superiour officer was up to no good no matter what his motivation was.

he don't understand Islam,because Islam so clearly says that:"Let there be no compulsion in religion

As I said before, the presence of a certain law or teaching doesn't mean everyone will follow it.

No faith and no book in the history of all humanity have more teachings about love, forgiveness, sacrifice, tolerance and humility than Christianity and the Holy Bible...
Does this mean no Christian ever does wrong?
Does this mean we are all angels?

of course not!

The point is Mohammed, you, and undoubtedly many Muslims like your good self, are more concerned with the "image" of Islam than they are with the victims that fall in Islam's name on a daily basis everywhere around the world.

I am not a Muslim...I don't know where the problem is. Is it in Islam's teachings or in its followers interpretation?
That should be something all moderate and good Muslims get together and sort out.

I am however, a Copt...my mother is Egypt and my Father is Jesus Christ. I do care that my brothers and sisters are being persecuted and victimised every day. I do care about seeking and communicating with good people from whatever faith who can look to their conscience and try to understand...to correct whats going on, each in their own way.

*It wasn't appropriate at all to put this picture on this website..If it wasn't for feelings of lived people,so for Hani(If it was his body)

No? Would you say the same to the Arab media that continuously plaster images of injured, dead, bleeding and disfigured Palestinians and Iraqis (especially children)...at all hours exposing young children to these horriffic images on televisions, newspapers and magazines?????

At least I put a warning that the images are very disturbing...if people don't wish to view them...they didn't have to.

Finally, it is quite obvious you don't believe the events took place, and you are even doubting that this is his body.

That's fine...you have the right to your views. I assure you this is not a fabrication and that there are evidence to this effect. The truth will come out...but all in good time. For now, lets see what the investigation brings.

Xavier;

Thanks for your comment Xavier.

Of course the officer will just get a slap on the wrist and he'll be transferred to another command.

I'm afraid you're overly optimistic about this Xavier!!! I don't even think the officer will get 2 hours detention!!

Red,

did anyone realize that if the matter is "seriously" investigated that there would only be one outcome.... the "culprits" are insane

Again, see my comment to Xavier...even insanity is an optimistic outcome here. Remember...this is the millitary...not some schmuck wandering the streets wih a sword.

David

As always, you hit the nail on the head. Nothing but the word of God could even begin to provide comfort in a situation like this.

Marc

Long time no see...great to see you but not so great circumstances.

Everyone is involved whether they like it or not.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Most victims are those who realy have no vested interest...unfair but true.

Desmond

Excellent point. I second your call for prayer for the perpetrators. This is indeed what our faith is all about.

Eyewitness

Yes, I also hope its not true...but sadly I'm confident it is. Like I said, all in good time.

Last but not least...Pete and Cminor

Great to hear from you as always...it's an honour to have you along on this journey.

To the Anonymous commentors

Thank you all for commenting.

Please see my response to an earlier comment about why this is not more widely broadcast.

Everyone, please remember that this young man met a horrible end. No matter what your creed, race or belief...whether you believe the events or not...humanity says that we wish him eternal rest and wish his family comfort in their grief.

“My name is Sarofim…it’s an angel’s name”

2006-08-14T01:27:00.000+10:00

Hani Sarofim is a handsome young Egyptian…from Upper Egypt…a real Egyptian.

I have never met him…
But he is my brother.

If you are Egyptian like us
If you grew up by her great Nile
If you love Egypt's sand and sun
If you smelled the Mediterranean at her Alexandria
Or gazed at the Pyramids at her Giza
Hani is your brother too.

It pains me to tell you; our brother Hani Sarofim was murdered.

Tortured in fact, then his body thrown into the Nile as a sacrifice.
A sacrifice to ignorance and hatred.

Hani Sarofim was just doing his duty to his country. Completing his mandatory service in the armed forces just like any young man his age. But out there in southern Aswan where he was stationed, his superior officer didn’t see that he was like any young man.

Hani is a Copt. He had tattoos of the crucifix and of the Virgin Mother on his arms.

Hani was subjected to humiliation and psychological torture as a result of his faith. He was repeatedly harassed by his superior officer in order to persuade him to convert to Islam.

His sister in law Nessma says that at one time Hani simply answered the officer
“But my name is Sarofim…it’s an angel’s name”
(Translated from a script of an interview with the family)

But his superior had other ideas;
When his leader asked him blatantly to reject Chrisitianity and convert to Islam, Hani refused and told him he would notify the military intelligence. The leader threatened him saying "Ok Hani, I will settle things with you!"
(see the full transcript at lanternix)

Shocking? Disgusting? Unbelievable?

Yes!
But a reality.
It is a reality that Hani’s precious blood mingled with the water of the great Nile as if to eternally bind him to his Egypt.
It is a reality that his only crime was that he is a proud Copt.
It is a reality that his brutal death will quite likely go unpunished
It is a reality that horrifying as his death is…it isn’t the first. Hani joins a host of similarly proud Copts who chose to bear their crosses to the death.

May the Lord rest your soul my dear brave brother.
+++

Photos of Hani’s body are here
Please note: the images are graphic and extremely disturbing.

August Issue of the Independant Copt

2006-08-11T16:37:00.000+10:00

It was released on the first of August...but I've been too ill to blog :)

Check it out HERE

An Indictment of.....Ourselves????

2006-08-11T16:18:00.000+10:00

By now pretty much everyone is aware of the planned attack on an American flight in Heathrow airport, and which was thankfully averted.

Last night on Lateline (an Australian news and current affairs show...the good kind) Tony Jones interviewed a terrorism expert, a Mr. Bill Durodie on the issue. The interview was fine, until the very last words spoken by Mr. Durodie....

"we would also have to ask ourselves what led them to do this. A point I often make in this kind of debates is that it's not so much what it is that attracts a few individuals to fringe radical organisations that we need to worry about, but rather what it is about our own society that it fails to attract quite often young, articulate, bright, energetic and ambitious individuals, that they feel so alienated from it that they look for something else to provide substance and meaning to their lives. Surely, that's an indictment of ourselves as well "

for the full transcript see here

Hmmm, I don't know Mr Durodie!! I just don't know if I share this view with you. I mean with all due respect to your good self, I fail to see what it is about the Western world that would push these people to commit such crimes.

The Western societies, are open, democratic, and tolerant to a large degree. They have received wave after wave of people migrating from their homelands to search for a better life. Provided those people with opportunity...some excelled, some got by, and yes some got nowhere. Above all, they were given a "fair go" like we say here in Australia...regardless of color, race, gender, or faith.

Why do I say this?

Because I'm one of those people. One of those who came here to search for a better life...and I do appreciate what I was given.

It baffles me that after this, someone can turn around and blame this hatred and bitterness on the very community that opened up a door for them.

I, for one, refuse to indicte myself for the diseased logic that would compell someone to harm hundreds of people...and why?
To make a point?
Because they're American?
Because they're going to America?

Come on!!! really!!!

The Power of the Common Cause- The Free Copts

2006-07-21T11:16:00.000+10:00

The power of the common cause

Written by Neferteeti,
The Free Copts
Friday, 14 July 2006

Ask any Egyptian who grew up in the 30s or 40s and they’ll tell you that they did not experience sectarian tension in Egypt as we know it today. Many of them observe horrific events like Imbaba, El Kosheh or Udayssat and simply ask “what happened to us?"

Please see HERE for the full article.

A Request to all Passers By...

2006-07-19T00:43:00.000+10:00

No matter who you are
or where you come from

No matter who you think is in the right
and who is in the wrong

If you go to mass
or keep the Sabbath
or look to Mecca when you pray

Or if you don't believe in anything

Please join in a prayer...

For the innocent lives living the horror we are lucky to only watch on our TV sets
For the children who are losing their mothers and fathers
For the children losing their own innocent lives

For the injured that they may heal
For the dead that God may rest their souls

For the angry that they find peace

For the confused that they may find their way

For the leaders that they may find wisdom

For Lebanon that it doesn't live through another war...God knows the last one did enough damage.

For the Holy land that it soaks no more blood

And for the world to remember our past mistakes....and not to repeat them.

The events of the past week have been horrific to say the least. True they may be happening "over there"...miles and miles away from most of us. But what kind of world are we leaving to our children if we simply just turn off the TV and forget about it?

Forgive my bias but I'm going to let the Lord have the last word here:

ليضيء على الجالسين في الظلمة وظلال الموت لكي يهدي اقدامنا في طريق السلام.
لو 1: 79

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Luke 1:79

More Belated Responses!!

2006-07-17T16:20:00.000+10:00

Dear Mohammed
Here's the second (and final) installment of response to your comments/question:

+++

sons of prince were born away from the kingdom,but should they inherit hatred from the king?!

Just to clarify, we do not believe that God hated Adam and Eve at all, nor does He hate us. God was saddened by their sin but never hated them. God’s punishment is clearly spelt out to Adam:

17وَقَالَ لآدَمَ: «لأَنَّكَ سَمِعْتَ لِقَوْلِ امْرَأَتِكَ وَأَكَلْتَ مِنَ الشَّجَرَةِ الَّتِي أَوْصَيْتُكَ قَائِلاً: لاَ تَأْكُلْ مِنْهَا، مَلْعُونَةٌ الأَرْضُ بِسَبَبِكَ. بِالتَّعَبِ تَأْكُلُ مِنْهَا كُلَّ أَيَّامِ حَيَاتِكَ. 18وَشَوْكًا وَحَسَكًا تُنْبِتُ لَكَ، وَتَأْكُلُ عُشْبَ الْحَقْلِ. 19بِعَرَقِ وَجْهِكَ تَأْكُلُ خُبْزًا حَتَّى تَعُودَ إِلَى الأَرْضِ الَّتِي أُخِذْتَ مِنْهَا. لأَنَّكَ تُرَابٌ، وَإِلَى تُرَابٍ تَعُودُ».

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. Genesis 3:17

+++

Why you are better than those before coming of Jesus (in your belief)?!!

On the contrary we don’t believe we are better than they at all! I think David’s explanation was excellent. Salvation on the cross may have happened at a certain moment in time…but it is not bound by time. God is not bound by time, so an act of God (who saved un on the cross) can’t be bound by time. Just as He is eternal, His salvation is eternal and has saved all who obeyed Him and lived by His law with honesty and humility.

+++

Is Adam's sin like your daily sins?

The original sin is not like the sins we may commit in our daily life (see explanation in the first post on this issue)

Jesus saved us from the effect of the original sin and reconciled the Heavens and the earth. He gave us a clean slate if you like…its up to us to keep it clean or otherwise.

Think of it this way:

My father gave me a beautiful car and told me not to drive down a certain highway because it’s known to be dangerous.

I go there anyway…and whaddya know? I have an accident!!! I’m OK, but my beautiful new car is no longer beautiful…dinted and scratched everywhere.

I apologise to dad and he accepts my apology…I promise to listen to him from now on.

What happens to the car? I can’t afford to fix it!

Dad, because he is kind and loves me to death, fixes the car for me.

Now I have my beautiful new car looking every bit as beautiful as ever.

Whose responsibility is it now to keep it beautiful and look after it?

Mine!!

It is now up to me to be careful…to listen to dad’s advice…to keep away from danger.

Of course, the above example is not an exact match for the need for salvation to free us from sin…but I do hope it helps clarify the issue.

+++

I think that God must be the Most Powerful,as a result when He want to cerate man by a nature,there is not any power which can change this desire.And regarding this belief,I can imagine if God asked a man before Jesus coming;Why you did this sin?So he will reply:It's not my sin,my creation have a fault!!

Yes God is most powerful…yet sin exists. The concept of sin exists in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I’m not sure what you are asking, because if you are questioning how sin exists in God’s creation then you would be questioning your own belief as well.

+++

because Islam tells you to organize and resist-not kill-this lust and you'll paid by entering paradise,and if you didn't resist it so you'll be punished,if you replied the call of lust (by your free will)you'll be punished(in case you didn't repent),and if you replied the call of charity and good(by your free will)so you'll take the good retribution.

Again, I don’t understand what you mean by “organise and resist”. Christianity doesn’t expect us to “kill” sin!!! Like I said sin exists in all walks of life. It is up to us to excerise our free will, strengthened by God’s love in our hearts to keep away…to refuse being dragged into a sinful life.

What you say in that paragraph is exactly the same thing we believe: it’s up to us to choose!

+++

Why?Because Islam is not related to any nationality,persons or people but it denotes submission and obedience to Allah.

Also, Christianity is not bound to one race or group of people. The salvation was meant for all creation…not bound by time or by race or place.

+++

So,we don't deny Judaism and Christianity,but we believe that they're in their origin are right,but because the task of guarding Holy books of both of them have been put on shoulders of their followers so they have been corrupted,but as for Qur'an Allah Himself guarded it from being corrupted : " We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). "15:9And look at Bible,and will find a lot of conflictions between all Bibles.

Three problems I have here:

1) God also says in the Bible that His word will not be altered:

35اَلسَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ تَزُولاَنِ وَلكِنَّ كَلاَمِي لاَ يَزُولُ

35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35

2) If God promises He will guard His word from corruption…how do you explain Him allowing Jews/Christians to corrupt it?
If the Almighty says “I will guard My word”…why didn’t He?

3) Now I don’t know about you, but I for one read the Bible. There are different translations…but there are no conflict in the meaning between the translations.

Also, I don’t understand what you mean by “Bibles”?? do you mean Gospels? Or translations of the Bible?

And if you know what these conflicts are, could you give us an example? Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning or you have been misinformed. We could certainly explain this to you and at the end, you may decide you still don’t like the explanation…or that it did indeed clarify it to you.

+++

and I've been always asking myself;How Christianity by the belief in Trinity is respecting mind?!!This belief can't be reached by mind at all

Well actually it can! Many people throughout history believed in this faith whilst being very intelligent and well educated.

Perhaps you mean it cannot be accepted by YOUR mind? There is a difference here.

There are many things in Islam that I know MY intellect cannot accept. It doesn’t negate YOUR acceptance of them…it just means I don’t sccept them. But I can’t judge your intellect by my bias. Similarly you should not judge others faith and intellect by your own.

+++

all prophets and messengers talked about the One God who have no son or wife.

We do not believe God has a wife either!!

+++

God's nature is absolute and don't change by time,so if you thought about Trinity again you'll find that it existed after Jesus(in Christian belief)but before him there wasn't any Trinity.

God Has always existed…His nature doesn’t change…correct.
What has changed is our understanding of His nature.

The trinity has always existed Mohammed. The Gospel of St John the Apostle says:

1فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ، وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللهِ، وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللهَ. 2هذَا كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللهِ. 3كُلُّ شَيْءٍ بِهِ كَانَ، وَبِغَيْرِهِ لَمْ يَكُنْ شَيْءٌ مِمَّا كَانَ. 4فِيهِ كَانَتِ الْحَيَاةُ، وَالْحَيَاةُ كَانَتْ نُورَ النَّاسِ، 5وَالنُّورُ يُضِيءُ فِي الظُّلْمَةِ، وَالظُّلْمَةُ لَمْ تُدْرِكْهُ

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

The word here refers to Jesus Christ as does the Quran too:

[171] O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs
Sura 4 verse 171

Now I know this verse opposes the trinity but note the reference to Jesus as the word of God which is the point I’m trying to make…how do you explain Jesus being “The word of God” yet different to God? God being eternal: ie. Not bound by time…His word is as eternal as He is.

Look, sorry I didn’t want to turn this into a debate. Our aim of this discussion is to clarify to you what we believe. I am well aware of the fact you do not believe in the trinity and have also read “tafseer” of the Quran regarding Jesus. So I’m not asking you to explain this verse to me. I’m merely using it to clarify a point.

In a way, I know what the verse means to you as a Muslim…I’m, just telling you what it means to me as a Christian.

+++

I'd like to direct your attention to an important point,when I say that Christian belief have faults I don't aim at irritating you but I just invite you to let your mind work,whether you find me right or wrong but just don't delete your mind.

Mohammed; I know you don’t mean offence, but I can’t help but feel offended at your assumption that we don’t understand what we believe.

For starters, how did you arrive at the conclusion that we don’t use our mind to understand our faith?

If its merely the result of your inability to comprehend Christian concepts then forgive me but this is arrogance. I said this before to Mohammed Meshref, it’s like me saying “Physicists don’t employ their intellect to understand physics” just because I don’t understand physics!

Also, what you know about Christianity may not necessarily be a correct representation of what we actually believe. Hence, this discussion we are having to clarify some concepts to you. Of course you may still see these concepts as unacceptable to you…that’s fine, I’m not here to convince you of anything.

Just be mindful of the fact that a bit of tolerance goes a long way. Don’t “delete” our right to believe and practice a faith that we see as every bit as acceptable and meaningful as you see your own faith.

God's Peace and Blessings Be With You

.

A Belated Response

2006-07-12T15:41:00.000+10:00

In this post I plan to discuss many of the points raised in the comments on “Dear Mohamed: The Original Sin and the Salvation on the Cross (partII) But before I do, I’d like to express my gratitude and appreciation to all participants, especially Mohammed and David for their demonstration of how a civil dialogue between two people of different backgrounds and faiths should look like. I will also apologise again for the delay in participating but as you all know, I was pretty much away from the blog for a while.

Also, David; Thank you for sharing the story of your friend’s adopted daughter. It’s an exquisite example of God’s love for us in spite of our sins.

I’ll try to be direct and brief…partly because of time constraints but mainly because it’s the best way to carry out a discussion. So let’s get into it, hey?!

Lust and the Effects of Images

Mohammed; as I read your comments regarding this issue I remembered a meeting that was organised in church to welcome His Holiness Pope Shenouda in one of his visits to Australia. It was a youth meeting, and the church was filled to the rafters with young people who were looking forward to listen one of HH’s lectures and perhaps get the opportunity to ask him a question.

At the end of the lecture, a collection of written questions was taken up to His Holiness. One question or rather a comment written by a young man spoke of how some young Coptic girls are starting to wear inappropriate clothes to church (short skirts or tight clothing). You know what the first thing His holiness said?

He didn’t miss a beat….he immediately said “So why are you looking?” (طيب يابنى انت بتبصلهم ليه؟)
We all laughed!! Then His Holiness continued to say that of course the house of God deserves respect and that women or men entering the house of God need to respect the sanctity of this house…and even when you’re not in church, you treat your body as a sacred gift from God and not a tool to satisfy your vanity.

BUT!!!

The responsibility rests with each one of us to ensure we steer clear of sin. Sin exists in all walks of life. You speak of Islam not only prohibiting the sinful act…but also the means to it. I understand what you mean…its like not only prohibiting alcohol, but also selling it even if you yourself don’t drink it.

Christianity doesn’t know “haram” and “halal” (prohibited and allowed). Christianity teaches us that there are things that befit our status as the children of God and things that don’t. The Bible teaches us:

«كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تَحِلُّ لِي»، لكِنْ لَيْسَ كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تُوافِقُ. «كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تَحِلُّ لِي»، لكِنْ لاَ يَتَسَلَّطُ عَلَيَّ شَيْءٌ. 13الأَطْعِمَةُ لِلْجَوْفِ وَالْجَوْفُ لِلأَطْعِمَةِ، وَاللهُ سَيُبِيدُ هذَا وَتِلْكَ. وَلكِنَّ الْجَسَدَ لَيْسَ لِلزِّنَا بَلْ لِلرَّبِّ، وَالرَّبُّ لِلْجَسَدِ.

12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. (1Cor 6:12-14)

You can tell a small child “Do NOT touch the stove”

When they get a bit older, you can then explain to them why they shouldn’t:
“Don’t touch the hot stove because you’ll burn yourself”

But you don’t even need to tell an adult not to touch a hot stove because they know through experience or learning what the result is.

Back before the Age of Grace, before our Lord saved us on the cross, humanity was in its spiritual infancy. There were things that were prohibited and things that were allowed. After the salvation, we are freed from the burden of death and sin (by death I mean life away from God…life in sin)…we can grow in grace and strengthen our spirit in God.

We grow in spirit so that we can live in this world but not let the sins and lusts of the world into our hearts. Impossible you might say? Not when you have the power of God’s love by your side. We submit ourselves, our will and our hearts to God and He turns our weakness into strength.

We know what is not befitting for our bodies, mind and spirit…and we know what the consequence of sin is. That young Copt in church knows that Jesus Christ says:

28وَأَمَّا أَنَا فَأَقُولُ لَكُمْ: إِنَّ كُلَّ مَنْ يَنْظُرُ إِلَى امْرَأَةٍ لِيَشْتَهِيَهَا، فَقَدْ زَنَى بِهَا فِي قَلْبِهِ.
مت 5: 28
28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart

True, those girls shouldn’t wear inappropriate clothes in church…but he looked…and that was his responsibility!

In a previous post I mentioned a verse from the Bible that I love so much:

20هَئَنَذَا وَاقِفٌ عَلَى \لْبَابِ وَأَقْرَعُ. إِنْ سَمِعَ أَحَدٌ صَوْتِي وَفَتَحَ \لْبَابَ، أَدْخُلُ إِلَيْهِ وَأَتَعَشَّى مَعَهُ وَهُوَ مَعِي
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

God cleanses us only when we submit to Him…when we open our hearts and accept Him.

Yes I know I said I’d be brief, and here I spent a whole post talking about one point…I can’t help myself!! Now you know why I haven’t had time to respond before, lol.

Back with more soon.
God’s Peace and Blessings be With You,

My Moment of Selfish Gratitude

2006-07-05T15:37:00.000+10:00

Armed with my copy of the very first issue of The Independant Copt magazine, I settled on the couch to have a good read. My wonderful hubby and princess Angel were watching her favorite cartoon and it was a nice cold, but sunny Saturday morning...so we were enjoying some peaceful time.

When I turned the page to the article "The Village of Qus" (page 12), the pain started to mingle with the warmth of the moment and my pride in this magazine. I read on...read horriffic events...inhumane...suffering...pain....pain...pain..

The local director of intelligence of Qus became angry with the Bishop...he told Bishop Wissa 'As for the torture of Christians in Qus, you have seen nothing yet. There is plenty more to come'

He saw how the son and daughter of Buktor had been tortured. They (the police) had tortured the girl with electrical wires

Five charges of terrorism were filed against His Grace Bishop Wissa

They found twenty victims. Eight were killed out in the farms, and twelve in the residential area

A young Christian boy was also shot to death on the spot while riding his bicycle

Another person was so totally burned away that only o ne bone remained

Witnesses who had seen the actual shootings, their testemonies were denied. Forensic evidence was changed

Twenty one Christians were killed and nobody was held accountable

(Excerpts from The Independant Copt pages 12-17)

Horrific!

Just then, something amusing happened on the TV and my Angel jumped up and started giggling...innocent eyes filled with laughter.

I don't know why, but I started to imagine raising her in Egypt...

I tried to imagine having to tell her that she has no rights in her own home

I tried to imagine having to hide her in the house and hope and pray that the door won't break down any minute...while our neighbours pillaged our stores and terrorised us

I tried to imagine her beautiful eyes looking at blood soaked streets and wondering what it all meant

I tried to imagine having to tell her, her father won't be coming back home from the field because someone...probably one of our neighbors...shot him in cold blood

I tried to imagine telling her never to expect justice

I tried to imagine telling her that she doesn't count...because of her faith...she doesn't count

I tried to imagine she was riding her bicycle..... and I couldn't even imagine that!

Through my tears I found myself selfishly thanking the Lord I don't have to tell her any of it...Then I shed more tears for the mothers that do!

The Independant Copt

2006-07-05T15:29:00.000+10:00

First of all...I'm happy to be back :) I missed you guys!

Now, let me introduce you to a brilliant piece of work which is the fruit of wonderful collaboration between young Copts, from all denominations, from all around the world!

The Independant Copt is a monthly magazine (in English) and the first issue came out on the 1st of July 2006. I recommend you all have a look at the magazine and also at the site Free Copts because there is a dedicated bunch of young Copts who will be working hard toward raising awareness of a whole host of issues concerning the rights of Copts in Egypt.

Let us know what you think!

Destination: The Free Copts State

2006-06-14T16:04:00.000+10:00

Another gem in cyberspace is the Free Copts State. It's a forum where the Coptic issue, among other very interesting issues is discussed by Egyptians...Christians and Muslims.

My favorite place there is Father Abdel Massih Bassit Abulkheir's forum. Fr AbdelMassih is an apologetic who has a wonderful way of explaining so many misconceptions in the Christian faith.

The forum is predominantly in Arabic, but there is an English forum which is really picking up speed.

I have been having an absolute ball over there, sharing ideas and participating in lively discussions.

Worth a visit especially if you read and write Arabic.

Two Links

2006-06-14T15:53:00.000+10:00

In my 7 months of blogging I have been lucky and blessed to meet so many intersting, intelligent, spiritual and stimulating friends.

Two of those valued blog-friends have just posted brilliant posts on their blogs:

David is writing a wonderful series on The Song of Songs (see also link and link)

Also, Lanternix posted a great study of the burning of the Alexandria Library (but it is in Arabic)

Thanks to both David and Lanternix for their wonderful efforts.

FEVER!!! and what a lovely way to burn!

2006-06-14T15:25:00.000+10:00

Thats right ladies and gentlemen...Fever is here!
And it now comes in new colours:

GREEN and GOLD

That is of course apart from the all time favorite AZZURRO

I am of course talking about the World Cup. Specifically about Tuesday morning (Monday night of you are in Europe). About our two teams winning their first games in the tournament.

But lets face it...Australia's victory was so sweet. Partly because it's the first time we ever score in the Cup. Also because many people doubted we could win any games once we got there.

So we sat there, my wonderful hubby and me, late at night watching the game. He tried to keep from yelling so as not to wake princess Angel up. We sat there simmering throughout the first 70 minutes of the game. Then I got up and announced I was going to bed. There was no point!! the best that can happen is that we'd draw...and that's not so ideal because it would increase the pressure on us when we play Brazil.

But i just lingered at the door. Just stood there saying, 5 more minutes and I'm gone! Then another 5 minutes...and that's it.

And boy am I glad I stayed!!!!

Because right at the end, right at the 83rd minute...the temperature soared. Still, a draw is not so good...but at least it's not a loss.

Then the green and gold fever truly exploded!

Cahill scored again!

Now we were both struggling to contain our excitement.

And then the brilliant Aloisi scored the third goal.

It was difficult to go to sleep after that high...but we knew we had to. Italy played Ghana at 5:00 am and it was after 1:00am when we finally went to bed.

Of course Italy won their game against Ghana.

Could it really happen? Could Australia go through to the next round?

You know, if Aus get second place in the group, and Italy get first in their group...Australia play Italy!!

That would be really interesting :)

Enjoy the fever, football fans....

AUSSIE! AUSSIE! AUSSIE!

and of course

FORZA AZZURRI

I wish we could also cheer for the Pharaohs...but maybe next time!

The Kind Visitor

2006-06-08T14:14:00.000+10:00

My eyes open suddenly and I sit up with a jolt.
What was that noise??
Was I sleeping?
How long have I been sleeping?

It’s getting dark around me and I’m a little disorientated.
In the growing darkness I see the mess that surrounds me.

Then I hear the noise again…someone’s at the door!

I look around again, and I’m struck by the state of my place! How did I let it get this messy? I can’t open the door and let someone see this mess!

The knock comes again.

Persistent!

And familiar.

Familiar!! How I long for the familiar in my loneliness. How nice it would be to have the company.

But no, no! It’s embarrassing to open the door to this dark messy place.Maybe later…after I’ve cleaned and tidied up. Maybe then I can have company. Besides, I really have nothing special to offer my guest.

As if hearing my innermost thoughts, a voice comes from outside my door…reassuring and encouraging.

“It’s OK! I can help you clean up…it’s what I do! Then we can celebrate together. You don’t have to offer me anything except what you have…it’s more than enough for me.”

Reluctantly I open the door…it was the best decision I ever made!

20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revalations 3:20)
هَئَنَذَا وَاقِفٌ عَلَى \لْبَابِ وَأَقْرَعُ. إِنْ سَمِعَ أَحَدٌ صَوْتِي وَفَتَحَ \لْبَابَ، أَدْخُلُ إِلَيْهِ وَأَتَعَشَّى مَعَهُ وَهُوَ مَعِي

Sometimes we hesitate to let God into our hearts because we think we’re not good enough.
It’s silly really! We’re not embarrassed to go to the doctor when we’re sick.

Sometimes it’s difficult to understand how God…perfect as He is…is happy to accept what little we have to offer Him…when we, with all our imperfections find it hard to accept each other!

An Open Letter to a Well Meaning Friend

2006-06-03T00:52:00.000+10:00

Greetings my friend, I hope you are well. You know who you are, but I won’t disclose your identity because you elected to have the discussion with me via email and not on the blog. The reason I chose to answer your latest email on here is that I’d like to share my views on this with my other friends and guests. It is my hope that you will read on and hear me out.

Over the past few weeks we discussed a few things…or rather you accused and I tried to explain. Let me start by saying I harbor absolutely no resentment towards you. I only pity your unwillingness to actually listen…especially when you are ignoring answers to your own questions.

However I also thank you deeply! Every word you have said to me has been a blessing…every word has motivated me to seek out the voice of God…and all the time He reassured me...and all the time my faith grew stronger in Him. So you could say you helped me add layer upon layer onto my beautiful pearl!

Your latest email to me contained two links to audio lectures by an Islamic “da3ya” or one who preaches Islam to non-Muslims. I will not post the links here basically because I don’t know if I’m allowed to…which is a shame because he is a very funny man. Both lectures make claims about His Holiness Pope Shenouda the Third [which is his real title and name by the way and not Pope Shushu like the good sheikh called him :)], the Coptic Pope. Apparently HH Pope Shenouda denies the divinity of our Lord and Saviour and admits the fabrication of the Bible!! (note to others reading the open letter: didn’t I tell ya he was a funny man)

My response to this is very simple my well-meaning friend.

First you need to understand that HH the pope is nothing less than an intellectual and spiritual giant! He is a well educated, well read, well versed man who wrote so many books on the Christian faith, not to mention he owns an extensive Islamic library. As a Coptic people we hold more love and respect for him than you can imagine.

BUT!!!!

Even if…and that’s a BIG HUGE IF…if we assume that he indeed meant what this Islamic scholar claims he meant…which is something with the probability of say…0.0001 in a 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
You know, kinda like the hell freezing over probability…

Anyway, lets for the purpose of this exercise assume he indeed meant those things:

1) Although we pray that God grant him good health and a long life…he is only a human being and will ultimately die. Do you expect me to abandon the one true living God and follow the words of a man who will one day die?
For the Book teaches us that ينبغي ان يطاع الله اكثر من الناس
"We must obey God rather than men!” Acts 5:29

2) Again I pray that HH lives a long and healthy life and continue to guard the flock…but you (and the Islamic scholar) forget that the Christian faith has been standing tall and proud two thousand years before Pope Shenouda…and the faith will continue and grow for thousands more after him.

3) We don’t believe in Christ as God and Saviour just to please the Pope…or just because he said so…or just because the Pope believes
It follows that if the Pope himself was to reject Christ (here’s that hell freezing over thing again)…our faith remains intact and well.
(just think: would you reject islam if Sheikh el Azhar was baptised?)

The Christian faith does not start and end with Pope Shenouda or Pope Benedict
Our faith doesn’t reside in St Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican or St Mark’s Cathedral in Abbassya
Nor is it bound to the Anglican Bishops, or the Protestant Pastors…

Our faith lives because of the blood of martyrs who preferred death to life without Christ

Our faith lives because of the courage of many like St Athanasious and St Augustine

Our faith is ALIVE…because it lives in beating hearts that never cease to believe in Him: The One True Living God.

You will note that I haven’t even attempted to defend or explain what the Pope says and what the Islamic scholar “interpreted”. It’s because it is simply not necessary!! His Holiness Pope Shenouda is greater than any explanation I can offer.

The only thing I will say is that I don’t blame the Islamic scholar for “misinterpreting” the Pope’s words. After all, he (the aforementioned scholar) quiet likely does not possess adequate intellect, aside from an apparent strong desire to mar a great man and a great faith (feelings of inadequacy perhaps?)

I say this not because I categorically disagree with the man…but it is quiet evident from his speech, the dodgy recording of HH that he plays and stops several times thus interrupting continuity and his loud forceful voice, which he wouldn’t really need if he had any logic, rhyme or reason to his argument. Having said that, I appreciated the entertainment all the same!

My dear friend, if you are still reading this letter: I repeat that I respect your zeal for your religion. Although of late I am starting to see this zeal as borderline fanaticism: you have been condescending and totally oblivious to my request that you respect my choice to be Christian…and a proud one at that! In fact I don’t even know if you actually read anything I write to you because you never address any of it.

I appreciate your feeling that your own faith is right and all else is wrong. But rest assured my own choice has been an educated one. And I mean really educated: I studied Islam like I studied Christianity.

I sincerely hope that you stayed on to read till the end. I also hope that you understand what I am trying to say…thank you for trying to show me the “truth”…but I have already found it!!

I pray for you that God may give you peace and salvation.

When all else is gone…I know I'll still have my pearl!

2006-05-27T15:43:00.000+10:00

My pearl is a thing of exquisite beauty. Perfect and pricelss. It’s my most prized possession.

The one thing I can guarantee to have even if all the world disappears.

The one thing I can always wear with pride.

The one thing that can give me hope when things get tough.

But sometimes people don’t understand!

Some people said my pearl is boring. They said “why not have a jewel like mine?…it looks nicer” and it did at first.

But I found it was just a piece of glass. It shines for a while but it breaks easily.

Not my pearl!! It’s resilient and lasting.

Some have laughed at my foolishness, saying my pearl is nothing but a fake. “Have a precious rock like mine!” they offered. "Well, a rock is tougher than glass" I thought.

But when I looked closer, I saw it was heavy and menacing. If I held on tight, it would make my hands bleed.

Not my pearl! Light and smooth…wouldn’t hurt me no matter how tight I held on.

Many said I only value my pearl because it’s an “heirloom”…passed down to me by my family.

Maybe it was! But its value is far higher than something I just inherited. I have to earn it, you know!

So many times I misplaced it…
I thought it was lost…
But I always get back to it…nothing is more beautiful and serene.

If you have a pearl like mine, you’ll know what I mean.

If you want one, I know a guy. They’re goin' like hot cakes, but I’m sure He has enough for everyone.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it. (Mat 13:45-46)
أَيْضًا يُشْبِهُ مَلَكُوتُ السَّمَاوَاتِ إِنْسَانًا تَاجِرًا يَطْلُبُ لآلِئَ حَسَنَةً، فَلَمَّا وَجَدَ لُؤْلُؤَةً وَاحِدَةً كَثِيرَةَ الثَّمَنِ، مَضَى وَبَاعَ كُلَّ مَا كَانَ لَهُ وَاشْتَرَاهَا

It comes with a lifetime guarantee:

28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28)
وَأَنَا أُعْطِيهَا حَيَاةً أَبَدِيَّةً، وَلَنْ تَهْلِكَ إِلَى الأَبَدِ، وَلاَ يَخْطَفُهَا أَحَدٌ مِنْ يَدِي.

And a certificate of authenticity:

Signed with His love…

Sealed with His sacred blood…

And delivered by His Holy Spirit.

Apes and Swine

2006-05-24T15:36:00.000+10:00

No I’m not talking about my latest visit to the zoo, or the farm. I’m not talking about cheeky monkeys hanging from trees and eating bananas, Mr Murphy (my daughter’s purple monkey)...and not the funny Ape in the Optus commercial. Nor am I talking about cute little pink pigglets kids get to feed at the farm…Miss Piggy…or Babe.

I am talking about Jews and Christians!

Yes ladies and gentlemen, Jews and Christians. (read David's post)

For if you are a student in a Saudi school, you learn (among other things) a different kind of maths and biology:

Jews = Apes
Christians = Swine

As for manners…well you learn that you wouldn’t let an “infidel” pass comfortably in a narrow road…no! no! better be a bully and impose yourself on their space.
Don’t you dare greet them with peace! (after all whats the point? you might have to blow'em up one day)
And certainly don’t make friends with them!

Now that you are programmed to hate/demean/disrespect them...as you graduate they remind you how important Jihad is.

How sweet!! I bet Bin Laden was a star student.

Dear Mohamed: The Original Sin and the Salvation on the Cross (partII)

2006-05-17T00:41:00.000+10:00

An apology is in order…it has been too long since the first of my responses to you Mohamed, and for this I am sorry. I wish I could dedicate so much more time to this exercise but unfortunately time has become somewhat of a luxury in this day and age. This correspondence between us is valued by me and I want to make sure I give you an accurate picture of the Christian faith. Now time to thank you for your responses and for your open mind and heart. This is promising to be a fruitful discussion indeed.

So in the last post I told you about the original sin and what it means to us as Christians. Just to clarify again, the original sin refers to the state of absence from God’s grace. This is the only thing we inherited from Adam and Eve. We agree that whatever sins we commit in our daily life are our own responsibilities and we must repent in order to gain forgiveness.

Now you posed another set of good questions:
Why couldn’t God just forgive Adam and Eve?
Why did Jesus have to die?

David has done a wonderful job addressing your questions, but please allow me to offer my response as well.

Why couldn’t God just forgive Adam and Eve (and subsequently all of humanity I suppose)?

God indeed is merciful…in fact God’s mercy is infinite and absolute. But absolute mercy needs absolute justice in order to be perfect and complete. Of course we believe God is perfect and complete…it follows that He must be just as well as merciful.

Let’s revisit our King and his exiled son once more:
Ask any parent about their love for their child, they’ll tell you it’s the strongest love they feel for another human being. They would gladly sacrifice anything including their life for the sake of their child.

But is a good parent one who lets their child do what they please, then say “it’s ok…I forgive you”?? The king warned his son against a certain act, the son ignored the father’s warning. Believe me, as a parent having to discipline my child, I have often felt a wave of sympathy when she cried and said she was sorry after she did something she wasn't supposed to…I have come so close to saying “oh it’s ok, forget it”. However, I know in my heart that it’s not fair for me to raise a child without any understanding of right and wrong…of action and consequence.

God gave us free will and intellect. If He simply just forgave us for everything we did without a basis for the forgiveness, what use is our intellect and free will? What would differentiate us from animals? How would we understand the consequence of our sins?

Another point to consider is that we both (Muslims and Christians) believe that God punishes sinners who don’t repent. And we established that we both agree that God is absolutely just (3adel). It would follow that He can’t simply forgo evil and overlook sin, nor can He arbitrarily forgive anyone without there being a just basis for forgiveness. Meaning: God said that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) لان اجرة الخطية هي موت
So basically it is unjust for God to forgive someone, unless they can pay for their sin.

So how is it we are supposed to atone for our sins?
In Judaism, it was tradition to offer sacrifice to God for remission of their sins.

11لأَنَّ نَفْسَ الْجَسَدِ هِيَ فِي الدَّمِ، فَأَنَا أَعْطَيْتُكُمْ إِيَّاهُ عَلَى الْمَذْبَحِ لِلتَّكْفِيرِ عَنْ نُفُوسِكُمْ، لأَنَّ الدَّمَ يُكَفِّرُ عَنِ النَّفْسِ
11For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (lev 17:11)

And

22وَكُلُّ شَيْءٍ تَقْرِيبًا يَتَطَهَّرُ حَسَبَ النَّامُوسِ بِالدَّمِ، وَبِدُونِ سَفْكِ دَمٍ لاَ تَحْصُلُ مَغْفِرَةٌ!
22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Heb 9:22)

Also in Islam, the concept of sacrifice is not foreign. Nor is the concept of life for life (Or substitutionary atonement). Look at the account of our father Abraham when God told him to offer his son as a sacrifice. Sura 37 verse 102

[102] Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (the son) said: "O my father! do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one practicing Patience and Constancy!"

[103] So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
[104] We called out to him, "O Ibrahim!
[105] "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
[106] For this was obviously a trial,

[107] And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice

Note the use of the words sacrifice ذبح او ذبيحه and ransom فداء

That’s precisely what God did for all of humanity. He offered us a ransom so we don’t have to pay the wages of our sin: death, but so we would have eternal life.

As for the concept of sacrificing oneself in the history of the human race in general, it’s sufficient to consider soldiers in war sacrificing themselves for their countries. Or perhaps a parent sacrificing their life to save a child, or a rescuer risking his life to save someone in distress.

Considering all this, and the fact that God is omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing and sovereign…it should not be too difficult to accept that His absolute justice demanded payment for the sin, and His absolute mercy offered us the ransom for this sin.

For the next post, I hope that with God’s grace I am able to address your second question regarding why Jesus had to die on the cross.
Peace be with you and all the best for your impending exams.

Just a side note regarding your comment about those who die for their message:
"It's a good thing to die for the sake of your message,and this is what Istishhadyeen are doing and accused of 'terrorism' specially in Palastine. "

Well, I beg to differ here. It’s admirable when you sacrifice yourself for that in which believe…not so when you’re taking down other innocent lives with you. What have those people committed to deserve this untimely horrible death? Why make a decision their behalf to take away their life for a cause they don’t even know about? Having said that, please understand I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause…I just reject the notion of violence in all shapes and forms. OK, that was enough of a digression :)

Just Because You Don't See It...

2006-05-15T11:44:00.000+10:00

My oh my!!! I am off for one day to enjoy Mothers Day and come back to find this lively and hot discussion, in real danger of departing the realm of reason and logic. I don’t mean this as an insult to any of the participants, those who I agree with or those Idisagree with. It’s just that I now have the benefit of looking at everyone’s responses and examining the discussion as it developed.

For starters, please understand that I apply the same Egyptian hospitality in this blog as I do in my home and heart…all friends are welcome and encouraged to participate in all discussions. If for nothing else, for the selfish reason that I hope to learn from you all as you share your opinions with me. So please don’t get upset muslim, if Jack or Xavier or Red address you…they don’t do it out of malice I am sure…but it is an open forum.

Where to start?

Muslim, it is regrettable that you are disappointed by my comments. However, it seems it is you who misunderstood (whether intentionally or genuinely) what I was trying to say about religious freedoms.

The minor issue: I don’t believe I said a minor shouldn’t have the right to choose their faith. Let me clarify:
The law in Egypt states that a minor cannot change their name, religion or get married without their parents consent.
Many underage Christian girls were allowed to do precisely that without the authorities so much as contacting the parents to obtain their consent, or even to notify them of their child’s intentions.

"Of course, they wont agree :D What a fucken stupid law. "

Stupid or not…it is a law, and it must be upheld, just like all other laws must be upheld until such time that it is changed. If people don’t like it, they should lobby to change it.

They are called law enforcement agencies for a reason my friend…they are meant to uphold the law and protect the citizens.

The above means that the law enforcement agencies failed to do their job. Their job isn’t to pick and choose which laws are good and need to be upheld…or to which are stupid and need to be ignored.

This is why the issue of Marianne and Christine is indeed important and needed to be properly addressed…there was a clear failure by the authorities to do their job. The evidence for this is that the day Mubarak said “find the girls” they miraculously appeared!!

Having said that, I don’t think it is stupid at all for parents to have an input in their children’s decisions regarding something like religion. Parents are guardians of their child, responsible for ensuring their wellbeing and teaching them good values and morals, etc. I’m not implying parents should prevent their child from choosing their faith, not at all. But guidance is required for children or teenagers, who are by nature mostly impressionable and impulsive (and don’t say they aren’t…believe me when I tell you we all feel invincible and absolutely right when we are young. When you get to my age, and have the benefit of hindsight you’ll see what I mean)

"Any Christian who converts to Islam must have been kidnapped and forced," said you!!

WOW!!! Now I may be getting forgetful and slightly crazy…but I don’t recall ever saying that. Please give me a reference where I actually said that!

I did point out cases where this has happened in previous posts…I did say that it does happen but never that all those who convert to Islam are kidnapped. I know the discussion is getting heated and the comments long, but I’d appreciate it if you didn’t misconstrue what I’m saying.

"Wafa' Qustantenn was forced to return back to Christianity. But you don't want to say it. You simply deny. Why don't you write a new post about her rights to believe in Islam? "

Again, I don’t believe I denied anything. I pointed out that her situation was sensitive. Further I will say to you that I honestly don’t know what to think of her situation. How can I defend something I don’t know anything about?

"Yeah .. Let me tell you some useful info:
"It is illegal to be a Bahaai." :)

"It is illegal for a Christian to build a church without the president's consent." :) "

Thanx, but I knew that already. Here’s the difference:
Baha’is are either adults who have the right to change their faith…or minors who are the responsibilities of their guardians. Why should it be illegal to adopt any religion at all??

Furthermore, Bahaa’i families actually offer their children the opportunity to adopt whatever faith they choose when they reach the age of consent. How’s that for a useful fact?

Churches? Yeah, stupid law, but that’s why we’re trying to change it.

"Once they release the kidnapped person, what prevents him from returning back to his religion? "

Perhaps you give me less credit than I deserve for my knowledge of Islamic doctrine. Here’s what prevents them my dear friend:

7aq el redda!!!!

They would be killed if they abandoned Islam. Again, remember Abdul Rahman. Islam is a one way street…you keep walking, or you loose your head (literally)!

Hijab Issue: Now, Muslim women wearing the hijab in France can’t be compared with Coptic women wearing cross in Egypt.

You can’t compare apples with oranges. The law in France says: No religious symbols in government schools. So the same law applies to Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist adherents as well. Here’s the law reference if you want to look it up: law 2004-228 of 15 March 2004 Loi n° 2004-228 du 15 mars 2004 encadrant, en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics.

As for those Copts hanging their crosses wherever they want, my earliest memory of walking the street with my mother is that of a bearded man in a white thobe spitting at her and cursing her cross.

As for church bells, need I remind you of the churches that were attacked and burned for no reason other than that Muslims in the village were offended by the ringing of the bells?

"kids? Moslem contries? international treaties?
Do you know what we are talking about, xavier? "

Yes I suspect he does…I for one understand what he means. You haven’t answered his question though.

Also, please don’t label the Western world as Christian. The Western world is a secular world…it is a gross misrepresentation on your part to call it Christian.

Finally, I will not dismiss you at all muslim. Nor do I think anyone else is trying to dismiss you. I have tried time and time again to see the discussion your way, and did my best to address everything you asked. Please accept my comment as a bit of advice or constructive criticism.

It seems that time and time again, you my dear friend have aimed only to antagonise. You have asked questions then dismissed our response. You have misconstrued and misrepresented things I stated. You have failed to answer questions we posed. Which at the end leads me to ask, as I am sure others are, what is it you are hoping to get out of this discussion?

If it’s to prove yourself right, then I suspect that’s something you need to prove to yourself. Often those trying to prove they are right and others are wrong, do so because they need to justify their own opinions to themselves.

If it’s to help guide us and show us the error of our ways, then thanks for the efforts, but no thanks. Every participant here has shown more than enough evidence that they understand exactly what they believe and why they believe it.

If it’s another reason altogether, please do share it because I for one am interested to know. Know this muslim, God knows I don’t harbour any resentment or hatred let alone annoyance toward you. I think I’m just confused by your need to attack or negate everything we say to you.

Now regarding proving Christianity:

Yes I do believe true faith starts in your soul. But I also never denied that proof is out of the question. You don’t like that we’re trying prove Christ’s divinity from the Bible…well, where else do you want the proof to come from? Can you prove anything about Islam from anywhere but he Koran and Ahadith? Can anyone for that matter prove their faith from anywhere but their own sacred text?

However, I’ll take you up on that challenge and show you that even Islam looks at Jesus as an extraordinary person altogether…Refer to this link:
In English
In Arabic

And tell me how anyone could possibly believe that in the very least…even if you don’t admit His divinity, God would need to send anyone after this extraordinary prophet. How could you claim that Mohammad who was not celibate, who waged wars, plundered caravans, encouraged enslaving women and children and even had a lot for himself, accepted verses from the devil unknowing (in contrast with Jesus who rejected the trial by Satan)…how could he be the seal of prophets after a man like Jesus??

I reiterate, we aren’t here to try to convert you…you posed questions, and we attempted to answer. Your refusal to acknowledge our answers is odd. I’m not saying agree with us…but at least agree that we are answering you. Remember muslim, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence…just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it ain’t there.

I pray that the Lord bless you and give you peace.

Seek And You Shall Find

2006-05-12T14:34:00.000+10:00

It’s funny, the way God communicates with us sometimes. Funny how, when we truly seek His guidance, He opens our eyes and hearts and suddenly we see Him and hear Him in all that surrounds us.

So many times in my life I sought God’s help and guidance. Sometimes it was in despair, sometimes I was just confused…other times I was angry! Without fail, He always answered. I would pick up the Holy Bible and there I would find my guidance and comfort…spoken by Him, as if especially meant for me and me alone and especially at that precise moment. Not once, has He let me down.

This time, I wasn’t asking Him as much as I was just telling Him. I said I was sick and tired of having to endure accusations against my faith, and of having to explain, defend and justify…and that I would no longer do so. No more debates, no more justifications and no more headaches.

Today, I visited a website that I had visited numerous times before. But this time something jumped out at me. It’s always been there, I glanced at it before, but this time it seemed louder on the page.

He said to me:
بل قدسوا الرب الاله في قلوبكم مستعدين دائما لمجاوبة كل من يسألكم عن سبب الرجاء الذي فيكم بوداعة وخوف (peter1 3:15)

And for you who don’t read Arabic:

15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect

Thank you Lord, point well taken. It’s not about proving or defending. It’s about glorifying His name by sharing the hope and blessings we experience through Him with the rest of the world.

I had to read up the rest of the chapter because I liked this verse so much. Let’s share this wonderful teaching and get the blessing of the word of God. Here’s part of Peter1, chapter 3

9 غير مجازين عن شر بشر او عن شتيمة بشتيمة بل بالعكس مباركين عالمين انكم لهذا دعيتم لكي ترثوا بركة.

10 لان من اراد ان يحب الحياة ويرى اياما صالحة فليكفف لسانه عن الشر وشفتيه ان تتكلما بالمكر

11 ليعرض عن الشر ويصنع الخير ليطلب السلام ويجدّ في اثره

12 لان عيني الرب على الابرار واذنيه الى طلبتهم.ولكن وجه الرب ضد فاعلي الشر

13 فمن يؤذيكم ان كنتم متمثلين بالخير.

14 ولكن وان تألمتم من اجل البر فطوباكم.واما خوفهم فلا تخافوه ولا تضطربوا

15 بل قدسوا الرب الاله في قلوبكم مستعدين دائما لمجاوبة كل من يسألكم عن سبب الرجاء الذي فيكم بوداعة وخوف

16 ولكم ضمير صالح لكي يكون الذين يشتمون سيرتكم الصالحة في المسيح يخزون في ما يفترون عليكم كفاعلي شر.

+++

9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.

11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.

12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.

13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?

14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened."

15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander
+++

May the blessing and grace of the One True Living God be with us all.

Co-existence? Sure!!...But..

2006-05-07T14:48:00.000+10:00

Not if you are a Baha'i!!

Another example of the deterioration of the Egyptian mentality...a shameful debate is taking place as we speak, on whether to allow a group of people who follow the "Baha'i" faith to be recognised in Egypt.

Frankly, I know very little about the Baha'i faith, and I couldn't care less what these people believe. It's their issue!! But I do care...oh do I care!...that in this day and age, we are even having this discussion.

Now that I vented slightly, here's a background to the bemused amongst you who don't know what I'm talking about.

Reported in EIPR (Egyptian Initiave for Personal Rights) is a court ruling in favor of a Bahai couple who suffered blatant discrimination by our Egyptian government (who enjoy trampling the human rights of their citizens a bit too much).

The ruling was issued in a lawsuit filed by an Egyptian BahaÂi married couple against the Interior Minister in June 2004 after officials of the Interior MinistryÂs Civil Status Department (CSD) had confiscated their identification cards as well as the birth certificates of their three daughters, all stating their religious affiliation as BahaÂi. The CSD refused to issue new identification documents unless the family agreed to identify as Muslim.

Not only that, members of the People's Assembly or "magliss el sha3b" have been outspoken in vilifying Baha'is (link ). The Muslim Brotherhood member Gamal Aql even going as far as saying they should be considered apostates (mortaddeen), and we all know what this means (remember Abdul Rahman the Afghan convert?)
وقال جمال عقل عضو المجلس عن جماعة الاخوان المسلمين ان البهائيين كفرة ويجب قتلهم قائلا انهم بدلوا دينهم
The man doesn't mince words...he came right out and called for their death!

But I don't blame him. They say you can tell a tree by the fruit it bears...Mr Aql's fruit seems to stem from the same tree that sprouted a fatwa decreeing the Baha'is are apostates, which was issued by Al-Azhar: considered a beacon for Islamic teachings in the Arab world (link)

والبابية أو البهائية فكر خليط من فلسفات وأديان متعددة، ليس فيها جديد تحتاجه الأمة الإسلامية لإصلاح شأنها وجمع شملها، بل وضح أنها تعمل لخدمة الصهيونية والاستعمار، فهي سليلة أفكار ونحل ابتليت بها الأمة الإسلامية حربا على الإسلام وباسم الدين.

Baha'i faith is just a mix of ideologies and religions, it contains nothing new that the Islamic Umma needs to improve its position. Furthermore, it is clear that Bahaism would only benefit Zionists and colonialists, as it is a faith born of ideologies that are but a war on Islam

Way to go!! I give them five stars for provocationion.

Then they go on to describe the Baha'i faith and traditions, which as I said before, is no concern of mine (nor should it be of Al-Azhar's beyond a philosophical or ideological difference of opinion or faith)

Then the Azhar's decision:

---------------------------------

أن الإسلام لا يقر أي ديانة أخرى غير ما أمرنا القرآن باحترامه، فلا ينبغي، بل يمتنع أن تكون في مصر ديانة غير الإسلام ثم المسيحية واليهودية لأن كل ديانة أخرى غير مشروعة ومخالفة للنظام العام.

Islam only recognises religions that are mentioned in the Quran. Therefore,the existence of a religion other than Islam, then Christianity and Judaism should be forbidden, as all others would be a disturbance to the general order

وأن الأزهر ليهيب بالمسئولين في جمهورية مصر العربية أن يقفوا بحزم ضد هذه الفئة الباغية على دين الله وعلى النظام العام لهذا المجتمع، وأن ينفذوا حكم الله عليها... القانون الذي يستأصلها ويهيل التراب عليها، وعلى أفكارها، حماية للمواطنين جميعا من التردي في هذه الأفكار المنحرفة عن صراط الله المستقيم.

Al-Azhar calls unto officials in our Arab Republic of Egypt, to stand firm against this group of people who oppose God's religion and the general order of the society. They must carry out God's order: to cut these people off and heap the dust on them and their ideas...in tinterestrst of protecting all citizens from apostasy and following these twisted ideas away from God's true straight path.

إن هؤلاء الذين أجرموا في حق الإسلام والوطن يجب أن يختفوا من الحياة لا أن يجاهروا بالخروج على الإسلام

Those who committed this crime against Islam and our homeland must disappear from existence, and not be allowed to declare their rejection of Islam

-----------------------------------

What would you do if you were a Baha'i living in Egypt?? How would you feel?

We've asked this question before, only with a different group of people concerned:

How would you feel as a Copt in Egypt?

How would you feel as a woman?

How would you feel as a secular liberal thinker?

The Egyptian society is in danger spiraling into the Whabi brand of radicalism that pervades Saudi Arabia. Not only are politicians and Azhar scholars promoting this hatred, the average person seems to agree.

On the popular program "Al Qahira Alyawm" (Cairo today), this very issue was discussed. A poll indicated that only 25% respondents believed Baha'is are entitled to full rights as Egyptian citizens!!!

I know one shouldn't rely totally on these statistics...after all it's proven fact that 86.47% of statistics are made up on the spot (sorry couldn't resist), but sadly I can believe this one. One caller said "we can't allow this to happen. What's next? Buddhism?"

My dear fellow Egyptians: I implore you, open your minds and hearts before you spiral back to the dark ages. What does it matter if someone wants to worship a different God? Until when will we remain fixated on what should be a personal relationship with God....no matter who that God is!!

To our knowledge, Baha'i's don't engage in sacrificing virgins and eating babies

We never heard them promoting mass suicide or brainwashing young people

We haven't even heard of them blowing up innocent people or declaring war on the world

Why can't we just give them their rights, and leave them alone to worship whomever they like. After all, isn't this the coexistence we hear so much about?

Dan Brown and God's Work

2006-05-07T14:02:00.000+10:00

"The Davinci Code" the movie is about to be released in Australia. With the imminent release, come the repetitive ads an reviews. I must admit I haven't read the book, but am familiar with its content (who isn't?!), however I was still disturbed by the character of the psychopathic albino monk. My husband who has read the book commented that it seems his character (the monk's) has received a bit of a "Hollywood-bad-guy" make over...he just didn't perceive him to be this psychopathic when he read the book.

This monk's character (sorry I can't think of his name) is a member of the group "Opus Dei" which it seems Mr Brown more than embellished about their true nature.

(Read this article in The Age )

Opus Dei basically means the work of God. A group of people who dedicate their lives to God and the service of their community through Christian teachings. Most are lay people, living with their families and have careers, etc.. They are called "Supernumaries".

Others have vowed to dedicate their life in every sense to God. They are celibate, they give their salaries to the group and engage in self discipline (mortification) . They are Numeraries.

So far it seems a bit like monasticism, only you live out in the world and serve others. In a report by Sunday today there were interviews with members who basically live to serve others and carry out God's work!! There was also an interview with a lady who left the group because of what she says is brainwashing and controlling practices by the group. But John Allen, author of the book Opus Dei, simply said "when I talked to members and ex-members, I basically heard the same accounts...only from two different perspectives"

So, while ex-members talk of brainwashing, controlling and inflicting harm on oneself...members speak of a life lived for Christ, dedication and discipline.

It's hard for me to understand the life these people choose. Perhaps I have been spoilt some with all the comforts around me? I don't know. But I do know that these people are not harming anyone. If someone chooses to live a life of celibacy and purity, while working hard to benefit those around them, why is this bad? Isn't this what Christianity is about? Selfless love, serving your community, and just basically doing God's work!!

The very last paragraph in the article indicated above is worth noting.

Already the book has led Australians to inquire about membership in the movement. For Opus Dei, the movie might represent one step back and two steps forward.

So maybe Mr Brown is doing God's work after all!

Making Memories

2006-05-03T16:25:00.000+10:00

We sat by the window watching the rain. We cuddled each other and stroked the sleeping cat. That's what we do when it rains, my daughter and I. She loves watching the rain. So content and comfortable we were, I found myself wondering "will she remember this when she's all grown up?"

Will she remember kicking the ball in the park with daddy? Will she remember hsi strong hands pushing her on the swing? What about making pancakes and milkshake with mummy? And watering the plants on a hot summer's morning?

It came to me then that so many things I do now, are but a continuation of my own childhood comforts.

I still have to have chicken soup (just the way mum makes it) whenever I'm sick....no matter what the ailment is.

The smell of ta3meyya (falafel) takes me back, not to a couple of weeks ago when we were fasting lent...but to hot Cairo summer days when we were fasting in honor of Our Lady's ascension (I don't know why that specific one)

A warm summer's night always takes me back to those nights we spent on the balcony in our home in Shoubra. Enjoying the relief of the relatively cool breeze and solving crossword puzzles with dad.

Hearing Um Kolthoum or Abdel Halim takes me back...not to a couple of days ago when I listened to them in the car on my way to work...but to lovely spring evenings when I was a young girl, studying in preparation for end of year exams and listening to them on the radio (much to my parents dismay...they couldn't understand how I could study with the music on)

I still find comfort in remembering the late evening walks with dad in the summer...the voice of mum teaching us how to pray at night when we were but little children with our eyes closed and our hands clasped...waking up at dawn to prepare for our trip to Alexandria in the summer...staying up all night when it was hot, and sitting on the old couch all wrapped up in blankets when it was cold.

My husband and I have been parents for just over 2 years now. I suppose we always thought being a prent is about giving love, providing for our child and dicipline...and I'm sure it is...but I just realised today that it's also about giving them a comfortable place to reassure them when they're out in the world...It's about making memories together.

St Anthony of Padua

2006-05-03T14:55:00.000+10:00

Since she was born, every time my daughter lays her head down on her cot, she does so with two beautiful tiny icons under the pillow...each depicts a great saint carrying the Lord Jesus.

One was given to us by my mother and is of Saint Bishoy (read David's wonderful account of his life here )

The other was given to us by my mother in law, and is of St Antonio de Padua (the patron saint of the town my husband's family are from in Italy)

St Anthony of Padua

My knowledge of St Antonio goes back to the first year of my marriage. It was June 13, and my mother in law came back from church with bread. I asked her about it and she said "it's St Antonio's bread". My husband explained to me that June 13th marks the death of St Anthony, and that people take bread to the church on that day, then give the bread later to their families to eat after it was blessed at mass. I heard so much about St Antonio from my husband's family, but I knew I had to look for more if I wanted to write this post and do it justice.

As I started researching the life of this great saint, I found that there were no shortage of information on his blessed life and miracles. St Anthony was canonised about a year after his death, and he is sometimes referred to as 'Doctor of the church'. Most of his work was done in Italy, but I learnt that he was actually born in Portugal.

St. Anthony was born in the year 1195 A. D. at Lisbon (Portugal) where his father was a captain in the royal army. Already at the age of fifteen years, he had entered the Congregation of Canons Regular of St. Augustine and devoted himself with great earnestness both to study and to the practice of piety in the Monastery at Coimbra (Portugal).

However an incident not unlike many that we witness today, caused St Anthony to seek the Franciscan order.

About that time some of the first members of the Order of Friars Minor, which St. Francis has founded in 1206 A. D. came to Coimbra. They begged from the Canons Regular a small and very poor place, from which by their evangelical poverty and simplicity they edified everyone in the region. Then in 1219 A. D. some of these friars, moved by divine inspiration, went as missionaries to preach the Gospel of Christ to the inhabitants of Morocco. There they were brutally martyred for the Faith. Some Christian merchants succeeded in recovering their remains; and so brought their relics in triumph back to Coimbra.

The effect of this event on St Anthony was the loudest proclamation to the strength we can all find in God, if only we would let ourselves!! He very well could have said a prayer to God, so He would bless the souls of the martyrs...and that would have been it. Isn't this what we do today...that is if we do anything at all when we hear about our brothers and sisters who suffer to glorify God's name??? Not St Anthony!! He wanted to do more...

So moved by their heroic example he repeatedly begged and petitioned his superiors to be given leave to join the Franciscan Order. In the quiet little Franciscan convent at Coimbra he received a friendly reception, and in the same year his earnest wish to be sent to the missions in Africa was fulfilled.

This is probably something that may seem odd, or confuse those who haven't grown up in Christ's love. But what moved St Anthony was not anger, or hurt. He wasn't seeking vengeance or even justice. I wish I could ask him exactly why he wanted to go...but I somehow believe that he went there seeking to bring the love of Jesus Christ to those he knew needed it more than anyone else. I believe in my heart he went there wanting the world to know Christ, and he wasn't afraid to die for it.

But God had decreed otherwise. And so, St. Anthony scarcely set foot on African soil when he was seized with a grievous illness. Even after recovering from it, he was so weak that, resigning himself to the will of God, he boarded a boat back to Portugal. Unexpectedly a storm came upon them and drove the ship to the east where it found refuge on coast of Sicily. St. Anthony was greeted and given shelter by the Franciscans of that island, and thus came to be sent to Assisi, where the general chapter of the Order was held in May, 1221 A. D..

After this, St Anthony was moved to Romagna (Italy) and spent 9 months as a chaplain to hermits. He was so modest that he thought nothing of spending his days carrying on the lowliest duties of the kitchen and convent. But the Lord had bigger plans for this holy man.

At an ordination ceremony, the priest who was about to give the sermon fell ill suddenly and St Anthony was called upon to give the sermon in his place. Although he refused with humility at first, he eventually had to do so because of his vow of obedience to his supperior. The rest as they say, is history!

St Anthony was so eloquent, so learned and so passionate about the faith that he was then given mission to preach throughout Italy and also commissioned to teach theology by St Francis.

It was as an orator, however, rather than as professor, that Anthony reaped his richest harvest. He possessed in an eminent degree all the good qualities that characterize an eloquent preacher: a loud and clear voice, a winning countenance, wonderful memory, and profound learning, to which were added from on high the spirit of prophecy and an extraordinary gift of miracles. With the zeal of an apostle he undertook to reform the morality of his time by combating in an especial manner the vices of luxury, avarice, and tyranny. The fruit of his sermons was, therefore, as admirable as his eloquence itself. No less fervent was he in the extinction of heresy, notably that of the Cathares and the Patarines, which infested the centre and north of Italy, and probably also that of the Albigenses in the south of France, though we have no authorized documents to that effect.

His wonderful efforts in combating heresies earned him the title "Hammer of Heretics"...Lord knows we need more of those around these days.

Upon exhumation, some 336 years after his death, his body was found to be corrupted, yet his tongue was totally incorrupt, so perfect were the teachings that had been formed upon it.

As for his portrayal holding Christ the child:
Regarding the celebrated apparition of the Infant Jesus to our saint, French writers maintain it took place in the province of Limousin at the Castle of Chateauneuf-la-Forêt, between Limoges and Eymoutiers, whereas the Italian hagiographers fix the place at Camposanpiero, near Padua. The existing documents, however, do not decide the question. We have more certainty regarding the apparition of St. Francis to St. Anthony at the Provincial Chapter of Arles, whilst the latter was preaching about the mysteries of the Cross.

However, it is believed that whilst St Anthony was praying in a chapel owned by an Italian count, immense and beautiful light was seen emanating from the chapel by that count. As he approached, he saw St Anthony holding Christ the child and praying.

Throughout his life as a teacher, St Anthony placed the utmost importance on saving souls, then on learning. He always held onto St Francis' teaching: that the spirit of prayer be not extinguished either in yourself or in the other brethren.

In 1227 A. D., St. Anthony was elected Minister Provincial of the friars living in northern Italy. Thus he resumed the work of preaching. Due to his taxing labors and his austere penance, he soon felt his strength so spent that he prepared himself for death. After receiving the last sacraments he kept looking upward with a smile on his countenance. When he was asked what he saw there, he answered: "I see my Lord." He breathed forth his soul on June 13, 1231 A. D., being only thirty six year old. Soon the children in the streets of the city of Padua were crying: "The saint is dead, Anthony is dead."

But he's not forgotten!

+++

My References:
New Advent
American Catholic
Link
Beautiful article in Catholic.org

St Maurice and the Theban Legion

2006-04-26T01:23:00.000+10:00

Another wonderful installment in David's series on Coptic saints: St Maurice and the Theban Legion

Great Catholic Saints: St Benedict of Nursia

2006-04-25T14:54:00.000+10:00

This post will mark the start of a series on "Great Catholic Saints" that I hope to post with God's help. It coincides with my good friend David's posts on Coptic saints, which in my view is a wonderful initiative on his behalf.

The aim was to introduce Coptic saints to the Western Christian community. Which prompted me to research great Western saints who may not be very well known to the Eastern Christians. Basically, we hope to celebrate what we all share as the children of the one living God. Considering St. Benedict of Nursia is the founder of monasticism in the Western world, his story is more than relevant for this purpose. You see, the father of Monasticism is St Anthony of Egypt. And so he and his brother in Christ who founded this great tradition in the West St Benedict are a perfect illustration of the bond and the tradition all Christians share.

St Benedict

St. Benedict was born to a wealthy family in Nursia around 480AD, a twin brother to his sister Scholastica.

"His boyhood was spent in Rome, where he lived with his parents and attended the schools until he had reached his higher studies. Then "giving over his books, and forsaking his father's house and wealth, with a mind only to serve God, he sought for some place where he might attain to the desire of his holy purpose; and in this sort he departed [from Rome], instructed with learned ignorance and furnished with unlearned wisdom" (Dial. St. Greg., II, Introd. in Migne, P.L. LXVI). There is much difference of opinion as to Benedict's age at the time. It has been very generally stated as fourteen, but a careful examination of St. Gregory's narrative makes it impossible to suppose him younger than nineteen or twenty. He was old enough to be in the midst of his literary studies, to understand the real meaning and worth of the dissolute and licentious lives of his companions, and to have been deeply affected himself by the love of a woman (Ibid. II, 2). He was capable of weighing all these things in comparison with the life taught in the Gospels, and chose the latter, He was at the beginning of life, and he had at his disposal the means to a career as a Roman noble; clearly he was not a child, As St. Gregory expresses it, "he was in the world and was free to enjoy the advantages which the world offers, but drew back his foot which he had, as it were, already set forth in the world" (ibid., Introd.). If we accept the date 480 for his birth, we may fix the date of his abandoning the schools and quitting home at about A.D. 500. "

Considering his family's wealth, St Benedict could have lead an easy prosperous life and enjoyed all the world could offer. But as if to show those who can't comprehend the power of God's love, he easily abandoned the world to enjoy the one true pleasure in his heart: God's company.

"At Enfide Benedict worked his first miracle by restoring to perfect condition an earthenware wheat-sifter (capisterium) which his old servant had accidentally broken. The notoriety which this miracle brought upon Benedict drove him to escape still farther from social life, and "he fled secretly from his nurse and sought the more retired district of Subiaco". His purpose of life had also been modified. He had fled Rome to escape the evils of a great city; he now determined to be poor and to live by his own work. "For God's sake he deliberately chose the hardships of life and the weariness of labour" (ibid., 1). "

The story of St Benedict takes us to a cave on a steep mountain face where he lived and prayed alone with God for 3 years.

"During these three years of solitude, broken only by occasional communications with the outer world and by the visits of Romanus, he matured both in mind and character, in knowledge of himself and of his fellow-man, and at the same time he became not merely known to, but secured the respect of, those about him; so much so that on the death of the abbot of a monastery in the neighbourhood (identified by some with Vicovaro), the community came to him and begged him to become its abbot. Benedict was acquainted with the life and discipline of the monastery, and knew that "their manners were diverse from his and therefore that they would never agree together: yet, at length, overcome with their entreaty, he gave his consent" (ibid., 3). The experiment failed; the monks tried to poison him, and he returned to his cave. From this time his miracles seen to have become frequent, and many people, attracted by his sanctity and character, came to Subiaco to be under his guidance. For them he built in the valley twelve monasteries, in each of which he placed a superior with twelve monks. In a thirteenth he lived with "a few, such as he thought would more profit and be better instructed by his own presence" (ibid., 3). He remained, however, the father or abbot of all. With the establishment of these monasteries began the schools for children; and amongst the first to be brought were Maurus and Placid. "

He spent the rest of his realising the ideals of monasticism, and so the Benedictine Rule was established. The Benedictine Rule was written by St Benedict and addressed to all who wish to live a life of obedience to Christ. The fact he addressed his Rule to everyone and not just to church clergy shows that he saw his life away from the world and its pleasures, a simple offering to God. He clearly didn't place himself above the average laymen, but sought to teach the willing about the way to a life lived in God's grace.

This is a very brief explanation of the Benedictine Rule:

The great disciplinary force for human nature is work; idleness is its ruin. The purpose of his Rule was to bring men "back to God by the labour of obedience, from whom they had departed by the idleness of disobedience". Work was the first condition of all growth in goodness.
Work is not, as the civilization of the time taught, the condition peculiar to slaves; it is the universal lot of man, necessary for his well-being as a man, and essential for him as a Christian
Life apart from one's fellows, the life of a hermit, if it is to be wholesome and sane, is possible only for a few, and these few must have reached an advanced stage of self-discipline while living with others
The Rule conceives the superiors as always present and in constant touch with every member of the government, which is best described as patriarchal, or paternal (ibid., 2, 3, 64). The superior is the head of a family; all are the permanent members of a household.

The most outstanding feature of Benedictine monasticism is the commitment to working to serve the community.

Another beautiful part of this great saint's life story is his meeting with his sister Scholastice before her death:

"They met for the last time three days before Scholastica's death, on a day "when the sky was so clear that no cloud was to be seen". The sister begged her brother to stay the night, "but by no persuasion would he agree unto that, saying that he might not by any means tarry all night out of his abbey.... The nun receiving this denial of her brother, joining her hands together, laid them on the table; and so bowing her head upon them, she made her prayers to Almighty God, and lifting her head from the table, there fell suddenly such a tempest of lightening and thundering, and such abundance of rain, that neither venerable Bennet, nor the monks that were with him, could put their head out of door" (ibid., 33). Three days later, "Benedict beheld the soul of his sister, which was departed from her body, in the likeness of a dove, to ascend into heaven: who rejoicing much to see her great glory, with hymns and lauds gave thanks to Almighty God, and did impart news of this her death to his monks whom also he sent presently to bring her corpse to his abbey, to have it buried in that grave which he had provided for himself" (ibid., 34). "

St Benedict was a gentle, humble and God loving man who cared very much for those around him. Monasticism is often misunderstood by the world as a way of escaping the hardships of life, or failure to face one's problems. Through the life on St Benedict we can see that this is simply not true. He may have escaped the world, but it wasn't for fear of failure. Like St Anthony, he was the son of a wealthy family and he wouldn't have faced too many failures in life. But what he wanted was greater and more pleasurable than life itself.

Yet when he later lived amongst monks as their Abbot and father, he carried out his duty toward them with love and humility. He taught them, encouraged them, cared for their spiritual wellbeing and helped them so that they could help the world be a better place around them.

For more on miracles performed by this great saint: see this link
and link
All excerpts above are taken from New Advent.

David's Coptic Saints: St Moses the Black

2006-04-24T14:02:00.000+10:00

The second saint in this wonderful celebration of Coptic saints is St Moses The Black. Be sure to check out his inspirational life and David's wonderful contemplation of the life of this great saint (link)

May the blessings of his prayers be with us all.

And on the Last Day of Easter My True Love Gave to Me...

2006-04-23T14:53:00.000+10:00

Eternal life
Forgivness
Hope
An open door to Heaven
Victory over sin and death!!

And what beautiful gifts they are.

Aside from the day long prayer service on Good Friday, the Easter celebration on the Saturday night is an absolute must experience. My favourite moment takes place immediately before the mass starts.

All church lights are turned off, and a hush falls on the crowd (and believe me that is one huge achievement for a crowd of Egyptians!) The priest recites a verse from Psalm 24 in a beautiful traditional Coptic tune:

7Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

Deacon replies:

8Who is this King of glory?

Priest
LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.

and then again:
9Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

10Who is this King of glory?

LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory

At this, the lights go on, the bells toll and the priest, deacon and people raise their voices in unison to praise God and announce the Resurresction of our Lord. It's a wonderful, joyful and emotional moment.

Christos Anesti! Alithous Anesti!
Happy Easter to all Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters.

because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many

2006-04-21T15:36:00.000+10:00

(Isiah 53:12)

Today is Good Friday in the Coptic church. The church spends the whole day praying and meditating the happenings that preceeded the most significant event in the Christian history: The sacrifice on the cross. Then we acknowledge His agony as He puts His life down to give us back ours.

Like the verse above says: He was numbered with the transgressors...even though He was without sin, He carried ours onto His shoulders and paid the price.

25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Romans 4:25

The readings of Holy Week in the Coptic church and especially the readings for today seem so timely and relevant at this particular time...as if it's God's way of showing us that He is there, His word is there and we are not alone.

The readings tell us of Jesus' teachings to His disciples before the crucifixion. This is the message He left with them to give them strength and comfort before He leaves them to carry out te sacrifice:

33Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.John 14:33-35

And John 16 is also a favorite of mine and features in the Holy Week prayers quite a lot. The very last verse of that chapter couldn't be more relvenat right now:

33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

We thank you Lord for your infinite love and your sacrifice for our sake. The world may refuse us for your sake, but if God is with us, who is against us?

David's Coptic Saints

2006-04-21T15:26:00.000+10:00

Just a note that David has started posting about Coptic saints on his blog. The first post is on St Mark the Apostle and Evangelist, the founder of our Coptic church.

As we agreed during our discussion back then, I'll also start posting about Catholic saints as of next week.

These stories are a blessing and a celebration of what we share as children of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Dear Mohamed: The Original Sin and the Salvation on the Cross (part I)

2006-04-21T00:12:00.000+10:00

Continued from Dear Mohamed

In this post and all the ones to come, I'll attempt to answer your questions. To do this I'll state what I believe as an Orthodox Christian, and also reference what I say to some sources that you can go to for further information if you wish. Understandably, there is so much information on the points you raised, and so I'll try to summarise as much as I can without distorting the message. I'd also like to extend an invitation to anyone who comes across here, especially my blog-brothers-in-Christ (Pete, David, Xavier and Jack :D), to contribute to this discussion if they'd like to or to correct me if I misrepresent something.

Your question:
*How I carry the sin of my grandfather whatever the sin was big or whatever towards whom?!!!!!It's not fair at all!

That's a fair question. But to understand the concept of the oroginal sin, we have to differentiate between the original sin and sin.

Sin is prretty simple: it's the acts we commit against God and His commandments. Sin in this sense is not transferable between generations. If I commit a sin today, say lie to someone, I and only I am responsible for this sin. My daughter won't be punished by God for this sin.

The original sin refers to the consequence of the sin committed by Adam when he disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit. Adam was living in the garden of Eden with Eve, in the presence of God. Adam and Eve could talk to God and hear His response

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:8)

When Adam and Eve sinned, God punished them by removing them from paradise, removing them from being present with Him in His grace.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; (Genesis 3:17)

This punishment was consequently handed down to their decendants...they were separated from God and so all their decendants (us) are born away from the presence of God that they enjoyed before they sinned.

For a more eloquent explanation see this link especially these statements:

"Original sin is not an act but..., a state, a permanent privation..."

and:

"Our dogma does not attribute to the children of Adam any properly so-called responsibility for the act of their father, nor do we say that original sin is voluntary in the strict sense of the word. It is true that, considered as "a moral deformity", "a separation from God", as "the death of the soul", original sin is a real sin which deprives the soul of sanctifying grace"

Another good reference is Catholic.com

"original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’—a state and not an act" (CCC 404).
We are born with a fallen nature, a nature that is separated from God as a result of Adam’s sin. We have to be born again to become joined to God, to be in Christ, to become a member of the body of Christ, to be saved. We are born of Adam’s body into condemnation. We are born of Christ’s body unto salvation."

So just to sum it up:
We don't inherit the original sin because God is unjust, or because we're responsible for it. We inherited the punishment of Adam and Eve. If they hadn''t sinned, we would have been born in paradise, in God's grace. But because they were banished, their offspring can't enjoy God's grace.

If I could use an analogy, think of a prince who made an unforgivable mistake against his father (the king). If this prince is banished as a result, any children he has after that time will be born in exile, and won't be able to inherit the kingdom as they would have naturally. His offspring will not be included in the "line for the throne" anymore.

Now that we know we have inherited this separation from God, we come to the need for salvation. Although I'd hate to sound like a TV host, I have to say; join me next time for a discussion of the doctrine of Salvation in Christianity.

Until then, the peace of the Lord be with you my friend.

Dear Mohamed

2006-04-20T23:42:00.000+10:00

Dear Mohamed
Thank you so much for your response in a previous post and please accept my sincere apologies for taking this long to get back to you. As you are aware, it's been an eventful week.

You raised many points in your comment that need to be addressed properly. If I attempt to do this in one post, I might break the record for longest post in a blog, so I'll do what I always do and break it up somewhat. But before I do, I want to clarify to you that the aim of this is not to convince you of my point of view, rather it is to present you with the truth as I personally see it.

And why you say that half of population believe in it?If it was really the fact,so I know that an ardhothox Church don't admit that a protestant Church is Christian!!

That's not true! The protestant and Orthodox churches have some differences but they are both Christian churches who believe in the divinity of Christ, the salvation on the cross, and the resurrection.

The Protestant church may not be an Apostolic church like the Catholic and Orthodox churches (Apostolic because they are founded by the Apostles Paul, Peter and Mark)...but it is certainly recognised as a Christian church.

And to say that there is no good deeds by Muslims nowadays it will be so unfair.

You are absolutely correct and I'm with you 100% on this one. I do like the way Jack put it on So Much To Mourn. Take a look at his comment.

Basically, this isn't about all Muslims being good or bad...nor is it about all Christians being good or bad. This is about a reality we live in that involves injustice and attacks on one group of people by another, purely as a result of their religion. No matter, we'll come to that later on in the discussion I am sure.

And a last word about Books..not because the book opposites your belief so it must be offensive,but when it use good language and follow the calm wayÂso it isn't offensive.This is the measure

There's another measure to a balanced debate. You must accept the right of your opponent to respond. This is absent from the culture in most Islamic countries, because the right of the church to respond would be viewed as blasphemy against Islam. Honestly, criticism isn't taken very well in the Islamic world. Look at Fr Zakaria for example. He never swore, or insulted but he's been demonised by the media for responding to accusations pointed at the church by so many Islamic scholars.

I think the rest of your comment can be pretty much divided into the following headings:
1) The original sin and the concept of salvation
2) The divinity of Christ
3) The concepts of "God is Love" and "Love thy enemy"
4) Violent text in the Torah
5) Scientific facts in the Quran

If there's more that I missed out, I'll pick it up at the end :)

So Mohamed, grab a cup of tea and lets go on this journey. My hope is that at the end of it all, you will see things through the eyes of an average Christian. So when you form your opinion at the end, you could say you've examined it from both sides.

So Much to Mourn…

2006-04-15T18:08:00.000+10:00

Tomorrow is Palm Sunday for Coptic Orthodox Christians. There will be mass in the morning to celebrate Jesus Christ’s return to Jerusalem. After the celebrations, the Holy Week officially starts, and the church is shrouded in black. We start a week of deep spiritual prayers, we attempt to share with Jesus as He prepared to sacrifice Himself for our sake, and we mourn Him and His pain.

This year however, there are more reasons to mourn. As we approach the Holy Week, others sought to inflict harm on the Body of Christ…His children...even as they pray.

Alexandria

ABC link
BBC link

For photos of the aftermath (caution: may be distressing)
Free Copts

A cowardly attack on a group of people gathered to pray. And perhaps the Egyptian police was listening to you Peter, for they claim that the attacker is mentally unstable. Or maybe you just know them too well! That is of course after they edited the events and said there is only one attacker…initial reports say there were 3. The number of those injured varies as well.

I guess we’ll never know!!

But we do know that one man died. A man in his sixties killed as he prays in church. According to Dubai news which was shown on SBS here in Australia today at 11:30am, the priest of one of the 3 churches attacked said the attacker shouted “Islamic slogans” as he walked into the church.

Mentally unstable. Seems like the new craze (pardon the pun) in the Arab and Islamic world these days. Well at least Western countries can take a bit of a break from being the “cause-for-everything-that-goes-wrong” in that part of the world. It’s more fashionable now to blame mental illness.

Abdul Rahman converts….He is obviously mentally ill
Zakaria Moussaoui is facing death penalty… he suddenly starts acting crazy
A man (or 3 men) attacks worshippers in a church….he (they) are mentally ill

Is there an epidemic of mental illness in the Mid East??

Pakistan

Our good friend Xavier brought this one to my attention
Link

A Christian Pakistani woman is spending Easter in jail. Her charge: she desecrated a Muslim sacred image of the Kaba. The real story: she protested to seeing the cross on a heap of rubbish. The irony: those drawing the cross on the rubbish were protesting the Mohammad cartoons!!!

“Naseem saw the protesters draw a cross on top of a rubbish help and so she went out to protest the desecrating gesture.” The woman told the demonstrators they were violating a sacred symbol of Christianity while protesting about exactly the same offence against their own faith.”

That’s OK Naseem; maybe they too are mentally incapacitated to see the hypocrisy. Perhaps they are too mentally ill to know that images are forbidden (haram) in Islam anyway, so that image of the Kaba they claim you desecrated was a desecration in itself!

So as our Western Christian brothers and sisters celebrate the resurrection of our Lord, and as we embark on a week of solemn prayers, we all raise our hearts to God in prayer:

For all those who are persecuted for their faith
For all those who have to spend these blessed days grieving for their loved ones
For all those who are living in fear

We take comfort in Your words Lord:

17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. (Luke 21:17-18)

And last but not least, we pray for all those who seek to harm the church; the children of God, that they may be forgiven and to know the love and light of Christ.

Judas and Dan

2006-04-14T17:05:00.000+10:00

This post is in response to Sara's comment on the post: The Bible in the Quran:ÂWhy the Holy Bible is not a fake

Hi Sara, it's good to hear from you again. Please allow me to address your comment.

1-Judas

I haven't actually seen the documentary you mentioned, but I have heard and read alot about it. There is an excellent article about the Gospel of Judas written by Mark D. Roberts who is a pastor and a theologian. Here's the link: http://markdroberts.com/#apr906

You will find there a link that allows you to read the Gospel of Judas itself (or whatever is recovered from it). Basically Sara, citing the Gospel of Judas as evidence of the corruption of the Bible is very weak.

The Gospel of Judas contrasts wildly with the Gospels of St Mark, Matthew, John and Luke. The concepts in that Gospel (Judas) are a reverse of everything else in Christianity.

You say:
...and the shock that the bible or the book was written by the copts in egypt called epistemics....and that bible of judas were written 200 years after Jesus (PBUH)...

So are you saying the Gospel of Judas is a fake? If so why are we having this discussion? Christians also don't acknowledge this Gospel. It was rejected in 185 AD. It was rejected because the other Gospels were already accepted by the church.

(By the way it is the Gospel of Judas not the Bible of Judas. The Bible is the Holy book containing the Old and New Testaments.)

what was a more shocking that all the acadimis and bible proffesors said the all the four bibles of the disciples were documented after their death.....

Did they now? Well, I suppose they didn't explain how they arrived at that conclusion?

There is a lot of evidence that the Gospels of St Mark, Matthew, John and Luke were in fact written before the year 70 AD.
Here are some examples:

+ The earliest quotation of Matthew is found in Ignatius who died around 115 A.D. Therefore, Matthew was in circulation well before Ignatius came on the scene.

+ None of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D.:
Jesus Has predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple saying: "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:5, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). This was indeed fullfiled in the year 70AD. If the Gospels were written after then, they surely would have mentioned this event:
a) It was an extremely significant event
b) It was a fulfilment of Jesus Christ's words

+ Even the books following the 4 Gospels such as Acts fail to mention the destruction of the temple. The book of Acts is considered a historical account of the early church, immediately after the ascension of Jesus Christ. Again, an even as significant as the destruction of Jerusalme and the temple would surely have featured in it.

+ The Gospel of St John the Evangelist is considered to be the last of the Gospels to have been written. Papyrus fragments containing St John's Gospel were found in Egypt in the year 135AD. They were dated then to have been written in the 80's.

If you are interested, here are my sources:
http://www.gotquestions.org/when-Gospels-written.html
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter03.html
www.carm.org/questions/gospels_written.htm

2-Dan

go and read a wonderful story called " the da vinci code"....

You said it!! a story. The Davinci Code is a novel, filed under "fiction".

was the best seller at 2003 and sold more than 30 million copies allover the world...

Yeah, and the "Satanic Verses" was and still is a best seller too. Your point is...?

that story pushed a lot of priests to publish books defending the christinity!!!!!!!!!

Christianity didn't need to be defended. If there were books written to counter the claims made by Mr Dan Brown, what is wrong with that? At least he wasn't declared an apostate by the Vatican, and there was no money offered for his death.

This book, the Davinci Code, is a murder mystery which weaves alot of conpiracy theories through the plot to spice it up. Mr Brown wasn't the first to bring up those conspiracy theories. He has in fact just been trialled for plagiarismm.

More importantly, all the claims he makes in the books are easily destroyed. He says he based the events on facts and real locations. His references: Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Templar Revelation are not history books though. Go to any university teaching history or theology, check their curricula...you certainly won't find those references in there.

Sara, if you want to refute the Holy Bible and the Christian faith, I'd recommend you refer to a "real" book not to a novel.

last words...both..the programm of Gospel of JUdas and the story are non muslim sources..once a swizz chanel ..the other is an american author...

Here's a little fact about Christian history: Even before Islam, there were heretics who were actually Christians before they lost their way.

Here's a little fact about the Western world today: It's secular. A Swiss, American, British, Italian...researcher can say what they please about whatever they want to.

Being a Swiss or American doesn't automatically make their findings the absolute truth. There has been hundreds of Western and Eastern theologians and writers who also refuted the Quran and the Islamic faith. But you'd call those "Anti Islamic sources" I guess, and I suspect youu would strip them of all credibility too!!!

Finally, you still haven't answered my questions from the last post:

1) If you acknowledge that God gave Moses and Jesus the Torah and Injil, how do you explain that the Almighty couldn't protect His word from corruption?

2) Who is responsible for altering the original Bible? Jews or Christians?

I look forward to learning your thoughts regarding the above questions.

The time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service

2006-04-14T00:14:00.000+10:00

And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. (John 16:2-3)

بَلْ سَيَأْتِي وَقْتٌ يَظُنُّ فِيهِ مَنْ يَقْتُلُكُمْ أَنَّهُ يُؤَدِّي خِدْمَةً لِلهِ
وسيفعلون هذا بكم لانهم لم يعرفوا الآب ولا عرفوني

As we approach the conclusion of Holy Lent, and Good Friday when Christ suffered for our sake, we are reminded of His words to us in the Gospel of St John the Evangelist (see above). For His children are indeed being cast out and persecuted for His name.

_________________________________________________

1) In Qena:
http://freecopts.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=9

An attack on a Coptic community in Upper Egypt...the cause: they were suspected of building a church.

No you're not experiencing deja vu. This is a fresh attack. The third this year for the same reason. I really don't have much more to say about this other than to say to those who insist there's no religiously based persecution in Egypt: How do you explain this then?????

_______________________________________________

2) In Saudi Arabia

http://italiancatholic.blogspot.com/2006/04/catholic-priest-arrested-and-expelled.html

The priest was , shock horror, praying!!! Who knew you could get arrested and chucked out of a country because you are praying?? And not any country, mind you. This is a country that claims to be the guardian of Islam. Islam which we've been hearing tonnes about its tolerance and respect for other religions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for respecting a country's laws while you are on their land. What gets me is the hypocricy and the double standards. Had this happened to an Imam in Australia, well...you all saw the post-cartoon hysteria.

_____________________________________________

Yes Lord, even in this day and age of intellectual and scientific advancements and awareness of human rights and freedoms...your children are still being persecuted.

We pray for the safety of all Your children, and we pray for the salvation of those who don't know You that they may experience the true light, for You have said:
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.(John 12:46)
انا قد جئت نورا الى العالم حتى كل من يؤمن بي لا يمكث في الظلمة

The Lost Boy who Found the Way

2006-04-13T23:48:00.000+10:00

Monday night has got to be one of my least favorite nights of the week. As we settled in after dinner to watch Andrew Denton's "Enough Rope" on the ABC this week however, we were rewarded with a wonderful "show and tell" segment.

For those of you not living downunder, Enough Rope is a TV show very similar to Parkinson. Basically Andrew Denton (the host) interviews a couple of celebrities. However, in my opinion, Andrew has got to be the best TV personalities on Aussie TV. He really knows how to bring out the best in his interviewees. There is a segment at the end of each episode called "show and tell". Anyone can register on the ABC website for this segment. You just need to have experienced something extraordinary or exceptional. If you're selected, Andrew interviews you for a few minutes at the end of an episode.

Show and tell of this week's episode was with Clement Deng, a Sudanese man whose very survival is nothing short of a miracle. You'll find the transcript of the interview in the link in this post's title. Basically he was the victim of the horrendous civil war in Southern Sudan, at the tender age of nine.

Clement Deng looks like a mild mannered, somewhat shy and quiet man. His speech is calm and he had a sweet smile as he spoke to Andrew. As he told of being attacked, beaten, branded and then being separated from his family, my heart broke a thousand times...
For all that I take for granted,
for the frightened children,
for all the grieving mothers
for the cruelty we are capable of as human beings
for the grace of this man who above all spoke of love.

Clement: So I just see that we need to bring love, because love is the mother of compromise, and when you love somebody and you actually criticise that person in context of love, you cannot reach the level that you want to take the life of a person away

Mr Deng; I tip my hat to you sir. You may have been lost to your home and family as a boy, but you certainly never lost yourself. Praise God who protected, not just you life, but your soul.

I'm Back!!

2006-04-13T23:41:00.000+10:00

Hey everyone

Well I certainly missed blogging over the past few days. But here I am, late night snack and hot drink on hand, working week over for 4 days (yayyy) and the brain cells already firing up. Not that I have been completely away from the blog world. I must admit I checked in on a few of my favorite blogs and posted some comments here and there on my lunch breaks ;D.

So if you've posted me a comment or a question, look out for the response over the next few days. But first I have a few things on my mind that I want to share.

See ya around!

Feed my sheep

2006-04-05T16:07:00.000+10:00

15So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Matthew 21:15-17

My regular blog friends may be wondering why I am posting after indicating that IÂll be awayforr a few days. Well guys, I didn't want the occasion of the passing of Pope John Paul II to pass quietly on this blog! So I just wanted to pay tribute to a great man, chosen by God to guard His flock.

Pope John Paul II inspires so many wonderful feelings of respect, awe and love in me. He, like my Coptic Orthodox pope Shenouda III, has placed great importance on the
youth of the church. Pope John Paul also worked hard towards church unity, something so close to the hearts of many Christians around the world. Not to mention his compassion for the poor and oppressed, and his affirmation of church doctrine.

But the one thing that clearly showed the world how the love of Jesus Christ can elevate us to higher spiritual grounds, was His HolinessÂ forgiveness to the man who shot him. In my humble opinion, that single event demonstrated more than words can say, that it is indeed possible to live by GodÂs commandments no matter the time or place we live inÂor who we are or who we live amongst.

So, while time may pass, Your Holiness will always be in the thoughts and prayers of those you shepherdedÂwhether Catholics or not. Thank you for setting a fine example of what it takes to guard GodÂs sheep. Thank you for showing the world what it means to live Christianity, not just to be Christian.

The Bible in the Quran:…Why the Holy Bible is not a fake

2006-04-01T22:23:00.000+11:00

The purpose of me starting to publish a blog was actually so I can talk about things I am passionate about. The Coptic persecution issue is such a topic. Of course once I started talking about it, many discussions ensued, mainly between me and Muslim guests. One of the points that kept coming up was the claim that the Holy Bible is a fake and so we Christians have been lead astray.

Although they say curiosity killed the cat, I can’t help being a curious person. So I set off looking into this claim, not because I actually doubted the veracity of the Holy Bible…but because I was curious to know where people would come up with this idea!! I thought about whether to publish what I found or not, finally deciding that because my faith and my Bible definitely qualify for “things I’m passionate about” status, and that I don’t intend any offence to anyone, nor do I intend to prove that “my religion is better than yours”…that I will publish it after all.

I have refered in my search to the following websites:
http://www.al-islam.com/arb/
http://www.equran.org/

and I focused on how Allah refers to the scriptures delivered before the Quran. None of the explanations are my own, rather they are "tafseer" (explanation) of such Muslim scholars as Al Tabari, Al Qurtobi, and Ibn Katheer (see first link above).

___________________________

Q1) Do you believe that the Quran is the unaltered word of Allah?

Q2) Do you abide by all the teachings of the Quran?

Q3) Do you believe that Allah is capable of protecting His Holy Books?

If you answered yes to any/all of the above please consider the following Quranic verses.

1) 4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messenger., and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

Al Qortobi explains that the scripture sent before the Quran refers to all scripture given to previous prophets. AlTabari explicitly refers to these scriptures as the Torah and Injil.

******

2) 57:27 Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy

3) 5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

In 2) and 3) Allah clearly says that He gave Issa (Jesus) the Injil (the Gospels), to light the way for people and confirm al torah (Al Tabari)

******

4) 10:94 If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.

In the explanation of Al Qortobi, he explains that those who read the books before thee are the Jews. This is corroborated by the explanation of Ibn Katheer and Tabari.

******

5) 29:46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

AlTabari again explicitly says that the people of the book are the Jews and Christians.

******

6) 5 :43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.

In AlTabari’s explanation he says that this means why the Jews would go to Mohammad and accept his judgment when they can find resolution in the book that I gave to them. So a clear admission that the Torah is the Book of God

******

7) 21:7 Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.

Those who possess the message or Ahl Althikr are the people of the Torah and Injil according to Al Tabari’s tafseer.

******

8) 10:37 This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah. on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
________________________________________

So, from the above we learn that:
• Allah gave Jesus and Moses the Torah and Injil (which constitute the Holy Bible)
• The Quran is a confirmation of what Allah has delivered beforehand (Torah and Injil)
• Allah advises Mohammad that if he is in doubt, he should refer to the people of the Book (torah and injil)
• Therefore Muslims must believe in the Torah and Injil as well as the Quran

Ok, now for another set of questions:

1) Was the Bible falsified before or after Islam/Quran?

If it was falsified before the coming of Islam, then no doubt Allah would have known that. Why is Allah telling Mohammad all these great things about it if it has been corrupted? Why refer him to books that He knows are false?

Whether before or after Islam and the Quran: if you claim that today’s Bible is false, surely you must have compared it with what you believe is an original. Where is the original unaltered copy that this claim is based upon??

2) What of the copies of the Holy Bible in museums al around the world from different eras in many languages?

If someone wanted to corrupt the Bible, wouldn’t that have been found out already by comparing the corrupt version with the older versions displayed or kept in many locations around the world? or have they all been corrupted too? and how is that feasible?

3) Who falsified the Bible, Christians or Jews?

The Holy Bible consists of the Old Testament which we the Christians share with the Jews, and the New Testament which belongs to the Christians only.

If the Christians wanted to alter the Bible, is it reasonable to believe that the Jewish scholars let it slide?? And the opposite is true, if the Jews wanted to corrupt the Torah, wouldn’t the Old Testament in the Christian Bible be different to the Torah today? Is it reasonable to believe that the Church let it slide?

Unless the Jews and Christians corrupted it together? But how does that make sense when the very essence of Christianity is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, which our Jewish brothers and sisters are still waiting for?

4) There have been many councils in the history if Christianity, to discuss and quell heresies and preserve the faith of the church. Wouldn't there have a council also to stop the falsification ofthe Bible?

Furthermore, when the church split into Orthodox and Catholic, it was mainly over the translation of ONE word in the creed....is it then reasonable to believe that a falsification of the Holy Bible would have gone unnoticed by either church??

5) Last but not least; how would God allow His word to be altered?

Did He not say in sura 10:64

10:64 For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.

And in Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Surely God the Almighty would have protected His word from the hands of misguided men. Surely God keeps His promises.
*******************************************

Injil= Gospel in Arabic

Attention All Muslims: Urgent Help Needed (2)

2006-03-29T15:36:00.000+11:00

OK, I suppose you all caught on by now that the story posted in my previous entry is half true/half fiction. It is of course the story of Abdul Rahman, the Afghani man who dared announce his conversion to Christianity. It was just my way of saying “if you walked a mile in his shoes…” to any Muslim guest who may read this.

Ironically, this man is called Abdul Rahman. This is a compounded Muslim Arabic name which translates to:
Abdul= he who worships the
and Rahman=Merciful, one of Allah’s 99 names in Islam.

I say ironic, because what this man faced from this supposedly merciful God and His followers leaves a lot to be desired in the way of mercy.

He was labeled an apostate (mortadd), rejected by his own family, jailed like a common criminal, sentenced to death, “diagnosed” with mental illness, accused of converting for financial gain, ordered to forsake his new faith…

No doubt you’ve read or heard a lot about his story. I was more interested in what the Arab Islamic media and public opinion was saying. Here is some of what I found:

1) Al Jazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BF30A354-324F-4A78-9E5B-F344E9D95CFC.htm
الأفغاني المرتد يبحث عن اللجوء في الخارج
The title of the article says: The Afghani apostate seeks to leave the country.

And: http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C3EF90EC-5A90-4EC0-B8CA-AFEB0650FB03.htm
الغرب يرغم كابل على إطلاق معتنق المسيحية
The west forces Kabul to free the Christian convert
And: http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7A5A8702-8972-4353-ADBF-BCEC796C53CB.htm
More pressure on Kabul in the case of the Afghani Apostateازدياد الضغوط على كابل في
قضية الأفغاني المرتد
Where we read:
وكان القاضي المكلف بالقضية في المحكمة العليا أنصار الله مولوي قال الخميس "نحاول معالجة هذه القضية بسرعة والتوصل إلى حل مرض" مؤكدا أن الإسلام "دين تسامح وعفو" متراجعا عن تصريح آخر قال فيه "إذا لم
يعد عبد الرحمن إلى الإسلام، فسيتم إنزال عقوبة الإعدام به طبقا للقانون".
The supreme court judge Ansar Allah Molawi said:we are trying to address this issue quickly to arrive at a decsision” He stressed that Islam is a religion of forgiveness and peace, and recanted an earlier statement where he said “If Abdul Rahman doesn’t return to Islam, he will be executed according to the law”

How nice of Aljazeera to keep calling Abdul Rahman an apostate, knowing full well what that label implies.

2) http://us.moheet.com/asp/show_g.asp?pg=13&lc=67&lol=1716279
وأفرجت السلطات الأفغانية عن الأفغاني بعد ضغوط مارستها الولايات المتحدة والغرب تحت ذريعة الحرية الدينية
The Afghan authorities set the man free, after continued pressure from the US and the West under the guise of religious freedom.

Wow! The guise of religious freedom?? The good people at the us.moheet don’t however say what the real motivation is. I wonder what they thought of the arrest itself, or of the fatwa that he deserves death. What were they? Statements made under the guise of a peaceful tolerant religion?

3) http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=371
Abdelsabour Shahin, an Islamist writer and academic at Cairo University, told the BBC that although Islam in principle enshrined freedom of belief, there were severe restrictions on that freedom.

"If someone changes from Islam to kufr (unbelief), that has to remain a personal matter, and he should not make it public," he said.

(hmmm! Would that be what is called toqiyya then? You know, lie just to save your skin, live the life of a coward?)

In other words, an apostate in a Muslim society, according to this view, forfeits his freedom of expression. If he goes public he should be executed, says Dr Shahin
He says there is an authoritative and unambiguous hadith (saying of the prophet) which calls for the killing of the apostate - "He who changes his religion should be killed", says Dr Shahin, quoting from the sayings of the prophet.
But Dr Shahin says the mere fact that someone goes public with his apostasy "amounts to fitna (sedition, or civil strife), he is thus like someone fighting Islam, and should therefore be killed."

(Right! He is causing trouble for Islam indeed. What happens now when more Muslims see this and want to know what attracted him to Christianity? Worse yet, what if more Muslims want to convert? Well, we wouldn’t be able to say Islam is the fastest growing religion anymore, that’s what. Nonsense, we kill him and make an example of him…after all, that’s what the great prophet said we should do…and he is the best role model we could follow. Freedom of worship?? HAH!)

4) http://global-war.bloghi.com/2006/03/27/afghan-apostate-loony-seeks-asylum.html
Rahman, 41, was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible

(gasp!! A Bible?!! If he was arrested with some opium, maybe we could let him go…but a Bible?? That’s criminal)

5) Now to my favorite little friends at AlArabiya.net. I don’t know what’s funnier, the articles or the readers comments.
http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2006/03/28/22355.htm
http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2006/03/19/22098.htm

Where many accused the man of accepting money to convert. What doesn’t make sense is that if he accepted money to convert, why would he welcome death for the sake of Christ???

In conclusion, I meant what I said…Attention all Muslims: Urgent help is needed! If you really mean what you say about the religion of peace and tolerance. About the mercy and freedom in Islam, speak up!! This man, and many others who leave Islam haven’t committed a crime. Why should they be sentenced to death? Why does the Islamic world go into hysterics about conversions, or even merely interest in other religions? Why is missionary work and proselytizing prohibited in Muslim countries, but Muslims have no such restrictions in Western countries? Why is it scary to let your people examine other faiths?

Urgent help is needed...not for Abdul Rahman, but for Islam. He no doubt has God's protection because he has put all his faith in Christ and welcomed death as a small price to pay. He doesn't need your help because he was promised:

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world John 16:33

and:

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Luke 6:22

But it is your faith that needs your help.You keep saying that the world has the wrong impression of you and your faith...have you asked yourselves why? Have you taken a step back and looked at the image you are projecting?

Attention All Muslims: Urgent Help Needed (1)

2006-03-29T15:30:00.000+11:00

In a small city on Allah’s earth, there lived a boy born to a Christian family. This wasn’t an extraodinary event as almost all the inhabitants of that city were Christians. When this boy grew up, he worked with a group of good Muslim men for a time. During that time, he came to know their faith and Quran. So, he decided to embrace this faith and become a Muslim man too.

Little did he know that by doing so, everyone would turn against him, including his own flesh and blood. It all came to blows when he was arrested after it was known he owned a Quran!!! The bewildered man was taken away and jailed to await a trial. Why? Because the Christians in the city said he had committed a crime by converting to Islam! They said that he is a traitor and the fate of a traitor is death!
He is an apostate!

He committed a sin by converting, and a greater sin by announcing his conversion!
Somehow, news of this broke out to the rest of the world. People everywhere were appalled at the humiliation this poor man faced, solely for exercising his right to embrace a faith he chose for himself.

The Bishop of the little city said “He must die no matter what! He is an apostate.”

Muslim religious leaders pleaded the case of this poor man. World leaders called for mercy. Finally feeling the pressure, the government let the man go free. But to what fate?

Young men from surrounding cities and villages converged on that city. Crying that he must be killed. The man’s own family promised to cut him into little pieces if they see him again.

Can you feel the humiliation of this?? This is an extreme miscarriage of justice and blatant hate towards Islam. This is proof that those Christians know nothing about personal freedoms. Something must be done!

The Martyrdom of St. Sedhom Bishay in Domiat: 25/03/1844 (17 Baramhat)

2006-03-26T11:48:00.000+11:00

Many years ago when I was a young girl of just 13 years, I visited a pretty church in the city of Domiat with my family. I had heard that it contained the relics of a saint called St Sidhom Bishay...but what I saw far exceeded my expectations. Relics are usually kept in glass cylinders covered with red velvet cloth...and even though you can't see what's inside them, you are filled with a sense of reverence. Reverence for God whose love was so great in the hearts of the martyred saints, that their lives were a low price to pay to defend their faith.

But the relic of St Sidhom Bishay was not encased in red velvet. His blessed body hadn't decayed and he just lay in his glass coffin as if in eternal testimony to the horrendous injuries he incurred in defense of his faith in Jesus Christ. What I didn't understand back then is that his martyrdom was the reason we the Copts have been able to raise the Lord's cross in our funerals since. You see, after the Arab invasion of Egypt, Muslim rulers prohibited the cross from being raised in public.

Here is the story of St Sidhom Bishay as told in the Coptic Synaxarium http://www.copticchurch.net/synaxarium/g_3_26_2006.html#4

Also, see this link for information on St Mary and St Sidhom Bishay in Domiat:
http://www.damietta.gov.eg/ever.html

and in Arabic (contains a photo of the saint's blessed body):
http://www.damietta.gov.eg/chur.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On this day also the church commemorates the martyrdom of Sedhom Bishay in Domiat on the 17th. of Baramhat year 1565 A.D. (March 25th., 1844 A.D.). He endured the torture for the Name of the Lord Christ and his martyrdom made the rising of the Cross during the Christian funeral processions openly, for it was forbidden before.

This martyr was a clerical employee in the government of the port of Domiat during the days of Mohammed Ali Basha the Governor of Egypt. A revolt of mobs in the port arose, they seized Sidhom Bishay and accused him falsely that he cursed Islam and witnessed against him before the religious judge a low uncivilized person and a donkey driver. The judge decided either he would forsake his faith or be killed, he whipped him and then sent him to the Governor of the city. After the Governor had examined his case he issued the same judgement against him as the judge did. Sidhom was steadfast in his Christian faith, not caring to be killed. They whipped, dragged him on his face down the stairs in the Governor palace, then they put him on a buffalo facing the tail and went around with him in the streets of the city insulting and degrading him. The Christians in the city became afraid and locked themselves in their houses.

The mob continued to insult him and tortured him in different ways until he was about to deliver his soul; so they brought him to the door of his house and left him there. His family went out and brought him inside and five days later he departed to heaven.

His departure was a great martyrdom, and the Christians counted him among the holy martyrs. They gathered regardless of their denomination and joined in his funeral in a celebration that there was nothing like it before. The Christians carried their arms and the priest put on their vestments headed by the Archpriest Yousef Michael who was the head of the Coptic congregation in Domiat and accompanied by the priests of the other denominations. They marched in his funeral in the streets of the city and in front of him the deacons carrying the banners of the Cross, and they arrived to the church where they prayed the funeral rites. The people went on objecting this reprehensible and painful incident and talking about the patience and endurance of the different kinds of torture in silence and the steadfastness of Sidhom the martyr.

The prominent people of the Christian community in Domiat deliberated as how to avoid these incidents in the future. They decided to ask the consuls of the foreign countries to mediate with the ruler of the country and the Pope the Patriarch of the Copts and sent to them detailed reports. Mr Michail Sorour the official representative of seven countries in Domiat was in charge of this mediation.

The ruler of Egypt was concerned about this incident and sent two official representatives to examine the case. So they reopened the inquiry and they realized the injustice and the ill-treatment that befell the great martyr and convicted the judge and the governor for their wrong doing, stripped them from their honor then exiled them. They asked, as a good will and to comfort the people, to allow the raising of the Cross publicly before the Christian funerals, and the ruler allowed that in Domiat. This was allowed later on all over the country during the Papacy of Pope Kyrellos IV.

The blessings of this great martyr be with us and glory be to God forever. Amen.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you St Sidhom Bishay. Thank you for bearing witness to the strength of Jesus Christ's love in the hearts of those who follow Him. Thank you for being the reason His cross was again held high in the land of Egypt.

Problems on Hold: The New and Improved Ethnic Cleansing Strategy

2006-03-22T16:06:00.000+11:00

The article in the title link is by Mr Youssef Sidhom, the editor of Watany. Mr Sidhom is someone I have a lot of respect for. He never shies away from speaking the truth as you can see from the concluding paragraph of the article. But first let's look at two of the cases listed in the article:

* Adel Ragheb Sourial was born in Daqahliya in 1929. Upon applying for a new ID, the Civil Register office contacted him to say that there was a discrepancy between the data in the papers he had submitted with the application and the data on the computer. The computer data cited Mr SourialÂs parents as Muslims while the papers listed them as Christians. Mr Sourial asks: ÂWhat can I do to prove the veracity of the data on my official papers? They are authentic, and were issued, approved, and employed by State apparatuses. Why does the Civil Register Authority reject them now instead of using them to correct the computer error?Â

* Hikmah Mahfouz Youssef Ibrahim was born in Alexandria in 1971. Ms Ibrahim applied for a new ID, and was wary of the procedure, the problems of which she had heard of so much. The Civil Register did not disappoint her; it lived up to its reputation and issued her an ID which cited her and her parentsÂ religion as Muslim, contrary to their actual Christian religion. When she complained, she was told to submit their birth certificates. Since both parents are dead and Ms Ibrahim does not have their birth certificates, she submitted their death certificatesÂthe last official papers that concern themÂwhich cite them both as Christian. The Civil Register clerk rejected the death certificates as proof of the parentsÂ religion. Ms Ibrahim submitted the ID cards of her six siblings, in all of which the same parents are listed as Christian, but the clerk still rejected them. Ms Ibrahim cries: ÂWhy should I have to pay for a computer entry error that is definitely not my fault?Â

And now the concluding paragraph of the article which contained one more case:
* The same story was repeated with Manal Anwar Moawed Shehata, who was born in Cairo in 1969, but Ms ShehataÂs problem was further complicated because one of the original documents she submitted was written in such poor handwriting that the word ÂChristianÂ could easily pass as ÂMuslimÂ. As to why this particular documentÂto the exclusion of all the others cited above in the other similar casesÂwas taken into consideration by the Civil Register clerk, is inexplicable. And could this document lead to the Islamisation of the entire family, or deprive Ms Shehata of her much-needed computerised ID?

No Mr. Sidhom, it's not really inexplicable at all. It's a classic symptom of the disease that has gripped the psyche of our nation. Perhaps it is fulfillment of Mohammad Anwar elSadat's promise in the Summit of Islamic Nation in the 1950's: that Allah willing, we will either eradicate, convert or humiliate all the Copts of Egypt. Perhaps this is how the government ensures the number of Christians in Egypt is misrepresented.

I suppose burning of churches and attacking innocent civilians could attract a lot of attention. But forced conversions of minors, falsifying official ID papers...it's a modern, bloodless form of ethnic cleansing. I shudder to imagine what else is up their sleeve!

One Step Forward, Two Steps Back

2006-03-14T23:23:00.000+11:00

That's how I see the progress of our discussion Sara. We started off bad, but I was beginning to feel hopeful that we're getting somewhere. That perhaps you may be starting to see what I mean, outside of the frame prescribed to you (and indeed all Egyptians) by Egyptian media about the evil diaspora Copts who want to destroy Egypt. Even though we are all proud Egyptian.

Like you said it's not possible to address absolutely everything we say, but usually we try to address the points that stand out to us. So much has stood out to me in your last lot of comments, that I felt I need to address it in a separate post.

Again, I will say that I respect your entitlement to your opinion, but I also value my own entitlement to say what offends me about them. You have overstepped the line in your last comments Sara. Let me tell you how:

1) You have attributed the strength of our faith and our church to Islam!!! What, pray tell gives you the right to evaluate the Christian faith or the Coptic church? What do you know of Orthodoxy?

it is well know that Egyptian coptics are one of the minorities that still keep faith in christinity...not as the western countries who forgot it...that's not because you are a great ppl...not that the main reason...but also you livied in a society that full of faith that helped you in that and didn't stop you.....

What an outrageous claim!!! How arrogant to attribute our steadfastness in preserving the faith to merely living in a Muslim society.

I'll tell you why the church still stands Sara. It is because of a promise Jesus gave us: upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.Matthew 16:18
وعلى هذه الصخرة ابني كنيستي وابواب الجحيم لن تقوى عليها

In fact if it were up to some Muslims, Christianity should be eliminated from the land of the great Nile. Anwar Sadat himself made that claim at the Summit of Islamic Nations in the 1950's when he was Secretary of the State to Nasser.

2) Your claims that the kidnapped Coptic girls are merely tramps whose families didn't know how to raise them properly:
it is their family problems who failed to raise their girls on our real traditions and how to be polite and there are many limits in talking with boys....also wafaa kostantine who no one knows what happened to her after el dair took her.... she was knowing a Muslim friend in her work....how could a married woman do such thing...
go and fix those women and ladies ethics and don't make us -Muslims- the reason for every bad thing happen to you according to your bad raising for those families..

متشكرين جدا يا ست ساره. ربنا يكرمك و يكرم أصلك يا ستّى.
So that's what you feel, hey? That they're all worthless, immoral harlots? Do you feel the same about the Kossovar women who were raped by the Serbian soldiers, I wonder?

What about the girl who was on her way to becoming a nun? (Nevine Maher Albert)
What about the girl who called her family asking for help? (Theresa Ghattas)
How come they are all minors, except of course for Ms Costantine, who unwittingly became a champion for every Muslim wishing to deny the kidnappings?????????

3) Your insinuation that the Copts will "cop it" if the UN investigates.
in our Muslims eyes ..you will be the one who brought them to EgyptÂ these organization are putting Egyptian Copts who lives in Egypt in the place of the enemyÂ

All I can say to that is, following your own logic, every surviving Jew from the Holocaust should hate all Germans
every American family who lost a loved one in Sept 11 should kill a Muslim person...
Aussie families who lost someone in Bali, kill a Muslim each
British people should lock up all British Muslims...what the hell, kill a few as well.
Then all Muslims should hate the Danes...
And all Jews...

Doesn't matter if these people have anything to do with the original offense...just hate them by association.

If you use that logic Sara, then we live in a jungle. That mentality strips us of the intellect that God gave us to set us apart from His other creation.

Besides, you forget a very important point. Why not fix the problem instead of just taking out the anger on innocent people.ولّا هو يعنى يبقى موت و خراب ديار؟؟؟

Also, nobody, I repeat NOBODY ever asked for foreign interference in any shape or form relating to millitary action!! Get that idea out of your head. If any Copt says it, I guarantee you they'll have to answer to us first. Ya Sara we all have families and childhood friends in Egypt...who wants to see their loved ones live through a war ya benty?????? It is no logical.
__________________________________________
Another issue I wish to clarify is your claims regarding how lucky Copts in Egypt should be:
* To not get offended and shocked like what happened to us with those cartoons
We never make fun of Jesus.

Is that a fact Sara? How about the books published by the Islamic Center for Enlightenment [see previous posts: (How Enlghtening) and (To Peter, Mohamed and Mustafa)]? Who are they making fun of?
What about Zaghloul el Naggar who writes for Al Ahram?? who is he offending?
What about sheikh el Sharawi (yes I'll mention him again) who gave himslef the right to "interpret" our Bible?
What about every tiny bit of sufferig inflicted on Christians in Islamic countries? You know that Jesus said: Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40
فيجيب الملك ويقول لهم الحق اقول لكم بما انكم فعلتموه باحد اخوتي هؤلاء الاصاغر فبي فعلتم

but in western countries they make fun of JesusÂthey hurt you deeply and you don't open your mouth to protest!!!

Who says we don't protest? Just because we don't burn buildings, go on a violent rampage, or issue a few death threats??

* You are living with all the forbidden in Christianity that is practiced in those western countries officially!! and you don't open your mouth to protest!!!

1) It isn't what happens outside of a Christian that affects their faith and relationship with God. A good Christian usually lights the way for those around them by setting a good example: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:16
فليضئ نوركم هكذا قدام الناس لكي يروا اعمالكم الحسنة ويمجدوا اباكم الذي في السموات

2) What is it that happens here in the West that doesn't happen in Egypt?

* Alcohol, drugs and gambling? All happen in Egypt. Last I checked the drug problem in Egypt was far worse than it is here in Australia.

* Pre-marital sex? Happens in Egypt...except they cal it "Orfi marriage" over there!! I know! I know! you;ll say it is prohibited in Islam. That's not the point, point is IT HAPPENS. Difference is, here in the West if someone is doing something, they don't lie and hide.

* Homosexual relationships? again, happens in Egypt, and has happened for a loooooooooong time. It's just hidden in failed marriages and stolen affairs.

* Criticism of religions? Happens in Egypt. Difference is, here everyone is equal. In Egypt, only Islam is exempt from criticism.

The image of a immoral Westren soeciety with no values, is a symptom of the Arab mentality that is diseased with resentment and jealousy. I have lived here for half my life, and have seen so many solid families from all nationalities you can imagine. Families where there is respect, morals and good values taught to their children. Families that are no less cohesive than their Egyptian counterparts, if not more than some. I have friends who are just as honorable and dignified as my old Egyptian friends. I have friends who are more religious than many Egyptians are.

There are negatives here, sure! but what society is free of those? At least here people are open and honest and they don't hide from their problems.

You criticise me for pointing out faults in the Egyptian society, saying I don't live there and so I don't know what I'm saying. Yet there you are passing judgement on the Western society as a whole, and all you probably know of them is photos of half naked celebrities and sleazy stories about teenage pregnancies that the Arab media loves so much to bandy about.

but in those countries...they left the chiristinity aside and most of these countries became with no relegion....

The state and Church were separated. Religion and politics were separated. But people haven't just "left" Christianity. The Catholic church around the corner from my house fills up with so many worshippers every Sunday, they have to run 4 mass celebrations! And still, people are spilling out of the doors. And that's just one church! And generally, teh Catholic church is witnessing a revival (see David's post on the subject http://italiancatholic.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-fervor-among-young-italian.html)

you are in america, read news...hear huromers...visit at min annualy...not a day by day living

You forget that I was born and raised in Cairo. In Shoubra to be precise. You don't get any more "real Egyptian experience" than that! I grew up on a diet of molokheyia, fuol, Naguib Mahfouz, Abdel Halim, Om Kalthoum, Yousef Idriss, Tawfiq el Hakim, Taha Hussain, Ali Amin and Mostafa Amin. I wrote poems about Jamila Bu7reid, Arab unity and children of the Intifada for my Arabic homework. My grandfather actually graced the political prisons you seem to think only house Muslims. He was jailed repeatedly for "resisting the Brittish occupation" then again for protesting corruption in Nasser's time. My uncles were right there in Sinai when we were defeated in 1967. My father fought and was injured in the October 1973 war. I know what Egypt is, and what Egyptians are Sara. I don't just read about it in the papers!

If you're still reading, and you haven't fallen asleep out of boredom or turned off the computer out of anger, I wish you all the best Sara. I pray that one day you may start to understand what we are really saying, and stop assuming the worst in us.

God Bless you and your family.

Why an Independent Coptic State is Simply NOT an Option

2006-03-11T15:08:00.000+11:00

Rumors of the Copts' desire to form a separate state, possibly in the Upper Egypt region, surfaced around the late 1970's, early 1980's. I had heard of these rumors before, but I thought they had died years ago. Apparently not! It seems recently (especially over the past couple of years) someone has been awakening those rumors, which are best described as ridiculous. A marvelous work by Free Copts on a Coptic flag, which they kindly allowed me to publish here lead to a discussion regarding this issue with a guest from Egypt.

Before I go any further, I'd like to clarify that what I say here is my opinion which I formed after researching the issue best as I could, and discussing it with some of the older members of the Coptic community here in Australia.

*********************************

Why it's not an option...

1) Strategically, it would be a great mistake. A Coptic state in Upper Egypt wedged between what will be the Islamic north, and the Sudanese Arabs in Northern Sudan, will be the equivalent of painting big red spots on our foreheads, and giving out invitations to the Muslim extremists to attack from North and South!

2) Logistically, it would be a nightmare. Copts currently live in cities and villages all over Egypt. Some have businesses, all attend churches built in all corners of the country. We have monasteries and convents containing sacred relics, from St Catherine's in Sinai to Wadi el Nattroun and all over Masr El Qadima. It's not an option to leave all that behind, so how are we to transfer all this to Upper Egypt?

3) How would we defend ourselves against attacks that are certain to take place? The myth about secret stashes of weapons in monasteries and churches is just that...a myth!

a) Monasteries and churches are always open, and receive worshippers and visitors every day of the year. If anyone wanted to wander around a monastery they're free to. If the police, the military, or state security wanted to investigate and search they welcome to. If this were true, it would be a matter which threatens national security, why hasn't anyone bothered to search?

b) The Coptic church has preserved the faith for 2000 years. One of the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ is: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52. How is reasonable then for priests and monks and servants of Jesus to stash weapons in His churches and near His consecrated altars????

*****************************

Who is claiming...

A greater insult added to the persecution suffered by the Copts in Egypt, is that Muslim extremists and indeed a lot of our moderate Muslim compatriots have denounced the diaspora Copts the right to speak on their fellow Copts behalf, but have freely given themselves that very right. They speculate and make conclusions regarding Coptic affairs without so much a thought for what we really believe and want.

An example of this is the references quoted by my guest Sara, in response to my request for verification as to why she believes Copts are planning to form an independent state. Let's examine them briefly. My comments will be between brackets:

1)http://www.ansab-online.com/phpBB2/showthread.php?t=4635
This page is from an Arabic forum and the topic is the Israeli plan to break up the Arab nation. The members discussing this topic have cited the following page: http://www.bahethcenter.org/arabic/malafat/wathaek/alwathaka_alsohionia.htm
which contains an article by a writer named Mohammad Seif-AlDawla. Mr Seif discusses "The Zionist document for breaking up the Arab nation" which he says was published in an Israeli paper called "Kifonim" in 1982. Mr Seif laments the step taken by Egypt to sign the Camp David agreements which he says took Egypt out of the equation and left Israel to take on the other Arab countries (as if Egypt was the mighty force stopping Israel to begin with?)

The Zionist document apparently says teh following:

ـ في مصر توجد أغلبية سنية مسلمة مقابل أقلية كبيرة من المسيحيين الذين يشكلون الأغلبية في مصر العليا، حوالي 8 مليون نسمة. وكان الرئيس محمد أنور السادات قد أعرب في خطابه في أيار/مايو من عام 1980 عن خشيته من أن تطالب هذه الأقلية بقيام دولتها الخاصة، أي دولة "لبنانية" مسيحية جديدة في مصر...

-There is a Sunni Muslim majority in Egypt, and a Christian minority (8 million) living mainly in Upper Egypt. In his speech delivered in May 1980, president Mohammad Anwar Sadat expressed his fear that this Christian minority will demand an independent Christian state in Egypt.

(Right, so here we have an Israeli, saying that the Muslim president has concerns about a Coptic state. No mention however of where the respected president arrived at this conclusion. No mention that a Coptic personality, prominent or not, gave any indication of this intention)

2) http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=294&CID=12
An article by Mr Mohammad Abdulla AlMo'ti published in the Arabic Times 11-20 September 1992.
Mr Abdel Mo'ti says: analysts are speculating that after the clashes between Muslims and Copts in Upper Egypt, the attacks on tourists busses and the government's apparent failure in managing the earthquake disaster, may result in a civil war which will result in 3 states in Egypt: A Coptic state, an Islamic state and a Nubian state.

(there's too much conjecture and speculation here)

Also:"‏المحلل للمؤتمر الصحـفي الذي عُقد بالكـنيسة المصرية في مصر، يشعر أنه يحمل تهديدًا مبطنًا بأن الأقباط بإمكانهم طلب الدعم الخارجـي، وأنهم يعانون من الاضطهاد‏"‏‏.‏
Again, he says that from a political analyst's view point, the Coptic conference had hidden implications of the Copts requesting the support of foriegn nations as a result of their oppression.

Then he says: ازدياد الجماعات المتطرفة المسيحية ‏(‏هناك 14 مجموعة مسلحة‏)‏،
The number of armed extremist Christian gangs in Egypt has risen to 14 .

(WOW!!! FOURTEEN?? he doesn't say where they are, who their members are and how they managed to avoid detection by the state security forces, when they're obviously known to a journalist like him)

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Why would they want to claim it...

In my opinion, it seems Anwar Sadat made that claim back then to divert attention from Camp David. It's no secret that he angered the masses, especially the Muslim Brotherhood, by merely shaking hands with the enemy, let alone signing a peace treaty. What to do? What to do?
Support fundamentalist Muslim gangs, give them another enemy to hate...this time an easy target so they can vent their anger successfully...THE COPTS. But how to arouse their ire? AHA! look out, they're storing weapons and they want a separate state!!

So successful was he, that the carnage increased in rate and in ferocity. He also paid a high price for his decision. Those very same gangs assassinated him. However, it seems he had the easy way out, while the Coptic community are still losing children, churches and freedoms til this day.

RE: Muslim's comment on "Coptic Flag"...The Holy Trinity

2006-03-07T15:51:00.000+11:00

Just to provide a background to those unfamiliar with the origin of this discussion, I decided to post this in a separate post.

While visiting another blog I observed a discussion between 3 Muslim readers and a Christian reader regarding Christian beliefs. One Muslim reader posed a question on the concept of the Holy Trinity and whether or not it is mentioned in the Bible. I couldn't resist answering the question...here's what I said:

Hi Guys
I've been sort of following the discussion you are having with Mario. I hope you won't mind me adding a couple of points to the discussion. These are my own explanations as I understand Christianity and as is supported by Biblical reference:
(2- if this word ( trinity)wasnt presented in the Bible, then where did it come from?
did someone invent or add it in Christianity? )
It may not have been spelled out in the Bible, but the concept is there.
If you read the Gospel of St John, chapter 1 verse 1 and 2:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.

The word of God is Jesus Christ. This is verified again in verse 14: 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
That explains the Son.
As for the Holy Spirit: Matthew 3:16-17
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
and in Acts 2:17-18
17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
___________________________________
So in short, even if the word trinity itself is not in the Bible, the concept is clearly in there. The fact we believe in Holy Trinity doesn't mean we believe in 3 Gods.
The sun is a body that emmits warmth and light. Yet it is just one sun.
You have a mind and a spoken word. But you are just one person.
God has a Spirit and He sent His word (Jesus) to the world. He is one God.
It is a difficult concept to understand. I won't however claim that if you don't understand it then you must be stupid (like Truth claimed anyone who didn't understand the Quranic miracle must be!!). I'll just say that if you look at something with bias, you may not see the truth in it.
God Bless All

Then I remembered something else so I posted:

Hey guys
Sorry just thought of something else re:Trinity.
In Matthew 28:19
19Go out and train everyone you meet, far and near, in this way of life, marking them by baptism in the threefold name: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Notice here He says in the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... not the "names"... Which means the three are one.
Also in John's Gospel, St John indicates the purpose of his writing this Gospel is to indeed show that Christ IS the Son of God. Chapter 20:31
31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Then I was rewarded by a torrent of abuse by the person called Truth, for my efforts in answering the question he posed. Silly me, I thought he was asking a question because he genuinely wanted to kn ow the answer!

Then Muslim posted the comment on my post The Coptic Flag which I'd like to respond to here. Before I do, I thank Muslim for his comment which is a far cry form the childich retort i recieved from Truth.

If Islam and Judaism state clearly the Oneness of Allah ..
How can Christianity which is the second volume of the same book says otherwise.

Christianity doesn't say otherwise. We have something called the "Creed" which is our cofession and affirmation of our faith in Christianity. The opening statement in our creed is: (see: http://www.scar.utoronto.ca/~coptic/creed.shtml)
Truly we believe in One God

Is any of us; He and his father ONE??!!
No we aren't one with our fathers or mothers. But the concept of God the Father and God the Son in the Holy Trinity is not the same as how men father children on earth. God didn't actually father a child...We say Jesus is the Son of God to point out the fact that He was sent from God and He is God.

Allah almighty sent Muhammad PBUH as the final Prophet to complete the religion that has been sent in volumes Judaism, Christianity then Islam. That religion needed to be completed and prove is that they all allow and forbids the same things with more aspects to life way of living in Islam.

Now that's interesting. What was it that Islam completed? Christianity and Judaism were already quite clear in what they allowed and disallowed. In fact Christianity completed Judaism.

The Old Testament is there to explain what the original sin was, and why we needed salvation. It also predicts the coming of the Massaiah who will deliver that salvation and reconcile Heaven and earth. The New Testament shows the fullfillment of those prophecies and tells of the early Church.

Forgive me, but I fail to see how Islam has anything to do with this. How did Islam address the salvation of humankind from the original sin? How does Islam address the Saviour (The Massaiah) that Jews are still waiting for?

Not all Christians are disbelievers or imitate disbelievers

If by "disbelievers" you mean those who believe in the Holy Trinity, I regret to tell you we are all disbelievers to you then. There isn't a Christian on earth who doesn't believe in the Divinity of Christ...it isn't possible!

For disbelievers and atheists, Allah also in Quran has drawn to us the basic lines in our relationship with them and how to treat them.

Would you care to list those for us please Muslim?

...if Judaism and Islam order us to glorify the Lords “Allah”’s name and not to take him in vain which include but not limited to “valueless, pointless, worthless … etc. acts”, then certainly Christianity does not allow this. Allah’s messengers have been praised and valued by Allah in all religions. Allah wouldn’t accept their names to be taken in vain!!

I believe you said this in the context of the cartoon issue. You're right, we follow that same command in Christianity. But what did Christianity have to do with the cartoons anyway?

I don't know where you 're from Muslim, but it always seems that the Islamic world views the West as "Christian", and so everything that happens in the West must be attributed to Christianity. Not True!

Christianity itself has suffered a great deal of mockery and insults at the hands of "Westerners" too. Christianity may be the religion of the majority here, but it doesn't dictate what is written in the papers or shown at galleries or taught at schools. The West is SECULAR.

Finally, I do acknowledge again that the concept of the Holy Trinity looks difficult and illogical on the surface. However, it is what we (Christians) believe in and will always believe in. If it makes us unbelievers in the eyes of Muslims, so be it.

Martyrs of Our Time

2006-03-07T15:07:00.000+11:00

This is a wonderful idea introduced by "The Polish Foundation of St. Benedictus" to commemorate the countless souls of innocent Christians, whose only crime is their faith.

This is George Shehata, the 13 year old who died during the attacks carried out by Muslims of the Udayssat village on their Christian compatriots in January. His only offense was that he dared, along with his community, to hope for a place of worship where they can safely pray to God and practice their faith.

May the Lord give this boy's family solace and comfort.

Thanks to Gateway Pundit for the picture and the link.

Stolen: Tereza Ghattas Kamal (2)

2006-03-07T14:52:00.000+11:00

The Canadian Coptic Association have kindly allowed me to post the story of Tereza on this blog in Arabic and English. You can read the Arabic version in Stolen: Tereza Ghattas Kamal (1) and both Arabic and English versions are linked to the posts through the post titles.

If you do read Arabic you'll note that the English version is far tamer than the Arabic one. The Arabic article relays the events as told by the victim's brother and it details intimidation and abuse directed at the family of the victim by the police. There is also an account told by Tereza's sister where she says Tereza was approached by a Muslim man Motaz Mohammad Metwali and offered 5000 pounds if she converted to Islam.

The phone call where Tereza spoke to her aunt saying she wants to go back home is also mentioned. Here's what Tereza said:

"Why have you all left me? Theyve kidnapped me and are treating me very badly. They want to force me to convert and I don't know where I am"

The aunt had caller ID on her phone and the call was traced back to someone who works for the Egyptian State Security!!

Please pray for the safe return of this girl who is being held against her will. Pray also for the safety of all Egyptians, because if the security police are the ones committing crimes...what will the criminals do? More importantly, what will the innocent do?

Stolen: Tereza Ghattas Kamal (1)

2006-03-07T14:45:00.000+11:00

التفاصيل الكاملة لحادثة اختطاف الفتاة القبطية تريزا غطاس كمال جرجس

يرويها الاستاذ سعيد غطاس كمال شقيق الفتاة المختطفة :

انه في يوم 3 / 1 / 2006 الساعه السابعة والنصف مساء و بينما كنت في وادي النطرون محل سكن الأسرة تم ٳتصال من تريزا ٳلي وقالت أن بطاقتها وكرنيه المعهد فُقدا منها في التاكسي الذي ٳستقلته بين الجيزه ومركز الصف وقالت انها عند أبونا بافلي كاهن كنيسة الصف في الجيزه واللبس بتاع العيد أيضا ضاع في التاكسي وأعطاها مبلغ 170 جنيه وقال لها أن تذهب ٳلي السكن الخاص بها التابع لمطرانية الجيزة حيث انها مغتربة و طلب منها الكاهن أن تذهب الي المعهد في الصباح لاستخراج كارنية جديد و بعد أن اخبرتني بهذا الموضوع علي التلفون أكدت انها سوف تصل الي أهلها يوم الاربعاء مساء او الخميس باكر علي اقصي تقدير .

و لكنها لم تصل ٳلي المنزل حتي مساء الخميس و حاولت كثيراً الاتصال بها و لكن الموبيل الخاص بها كان دائما غير متاح ثم اتصلت بالسكن الذي تقيم فيه فقالوا انها لم تأتي من يوم الثلاثاء حينما كانت عند الأب بافلي حيث قالت لهم انها سوف تسافر الي اسرتها في وادي النطرون .

و في يوم الجمعة ذهبت للسؤال عنها في بعض المستشفيات و حاولت أن أحرر محضر باختفائها في قسم الشرطة في مركز الصف فرفضوا تحرير المحضر بحجة أنها غير مقيمة في مركز الصف و ذهبت أيضا ٳلي قسم شرطة الجيزة الذي رفض أيضا تحرير محضر باختفائها وأاخبروني أنه لابد من تحرير المحضر في وادي النطرون

وبعد مرور سبعة ايام من تحرير المحضر في وادي النطرون قالت لنا اختها رشا ان هناك شاب مسلم يدعي معتز محمد متولي و شهرته عزت حاول من سنة و نصف اغراء تيريزا لاشهار اسلامها في مقابل خمسة الألاف جنية مصري و قال لتريزا (لو حبيتي تجيبي حد من زميلك وياخد نفس المبلغ عندي الي يدفع وهو الشيخ فكري ومقيم في وادي النطرون و هو صاحب صيدليه بيطري).

فقمت أنا و بقية اخواتها بالذهاب ٳلي مركز شرطة وادي النطرون و حررنا بلاغ باتهام المدعو معتز محمد متولي باختطاف تريزا و رقم المحضر هو 133 بتاريخ 10/1/2006 .
وتحول المحضر الي النيابه وامن الدوله و كان يتابع الموضوع الاباء الكهنه ابونا يحنس وابونا بطرس كاهن كنيسة الطرانه وابونا بسنتي كاهن كنيسة مدينة السادات وابونا بافلي كاهن كنيسة الخطاطبه .

ولما عرف السيد طارق هيكل رئيس مباحث امن الدوله بالمحافظة اننا متجمهرين عند المركز وقال (الناس دي تروح ويجي اخواتها بكره الثلاثه سعيد وجرجس ورشا وانا هوريهم اختهم ولو حد فيهم فضل قدام المركز انا هعتقلة ( ..........

وذهبنا الي هناك يوم 18 /1/ 2006 الي رئيس مباحث امن الدوله السيد طارق هيكل الذي سالني سؤال وقال لي (هل اختك مشيت بمزجها ولا مخطوفه؟) فاجبت علية ان اختي مختطفة فقام باهانتي و قال لي انت انسان قليل الادب و طردني من المكان .

و بعد ساعة استدعاني مرة اخري و كان معه الاب يحنس و قال لي السيد طارق هيكل (اختك اشهرت اسلامها من يوم 3/1/2006 و هي ترفض مقابلتكم ) ثم التفت الي الأب يحنس و قال له (هحاول اجيبك و تكون معاها علشان الموضوع مش في يدي الموضوع في يد اللواء حسن عبد الرحمن في القاهرة .

وفي يوم 24/1/2006 حدث اتصال تلفوني من تريزا الي أحد الاقارب في وادي النطرون و قالت بالحرف الواحد (انتم سايبني ليه؟ انا مخطوفه وبيعاملوني معامله وحشه وعايزني اسلم غصب عني وانا معرفش انا فين.(.

ومن خلال اظهار رقم التلفون الذي اتصلت منه عرفنا العنوان و بيانات صاحب التلفون و هو مصطفي محمود علي مقيم 21 شارع سته شبرا البلد امام كلية الزراعه .

و علي أثر ذلك قام ابونا يحنس باتصال بمطرانية شبرا وحكي الموضوع كله للمطرانية . وبعدها بيومين ذهبت الي امن الدوله ومعي محامي من مكتب المستشار نجيب جبرائيل . و قابلنا احد الضباط في أمن الدولة الذي قال لي ان الاستاذ رمسيس المحامي قص عليه الموضوع وقال ان أمن الدولة قد احضر صاحب الشقة التي اتصلت منها تريزا حين كان تستغيث بنا و هو السيد مصطفي محمود علي الذي انكر تماما أي علاقة او سابق معرفة بينة و بين تريزا ... وبعد ذلك بيومين عرفنا ان هذا الشخص (مصطفي محمود علي) يعمل في امن الدوله .

اريد أن أعرف ٳجابات تلك الاسئلة :

1- انا عايز اختي وعايز اعرف ايه مصيرها ؟
2- عايز اعرف ما معني كلام طارق هيكل ؟
3- ما معني وجود اختي في شقة رجل من رجال امن الدوله ؟

رجاء الاهتمام بالموضوع .

سعيد غطاس كمال جرجس شقيق الفتاة المختطفة

Coptic Flag

2006-03-01T15:50:00.000+11:00

I saw this on the Free Copts blog and absolutely loved it. Click on link in the post's title to see the explanation of the colors and symbols.

And before anyone uses this to accuse us of wanting a separate Coptic country in Egypt, I'd like to say that's never been our intention. We wouldn't dream of splitting Egypt up. After all, it was our ancestor the great king Mina who unified it thousands of years ago.

Having a flag doesn't always mean having a separate country. In Australia, the Aboriginal community have a flag, but we are all Australian and living in one country.

Free Copts have done a marvellous job with this flag.

To Peter, Mohamed and Mustafa

2006-03-01T13:53:00.000+11:00

OK! I'm back, and feeling better and would like to address your comments on post: مصر ليست وطنا نعيش به و لكنها وطن يعيش فينا

Because I missed the opportunity to respond to a few comments, I thought I'd address them in a separate post.

First of all, thank you all for everything you contributed to this discussion.

Pete; I just wanted to say thanks mate. I really appreciated your info on the early history of the Copts. I learnt some things I didn't know before.

Here are the points I wanted to address:

* RE: books cited in a previous post that attack Christianity, Mohamed said: Christians shouldn't take it as offensive...

But we do. Same way Muslims around the world thought the cartoons were offensive, but the cartoonists didn't think they were. They are offensive. That man Abu Islam Ahmad Abdalla who wrote some of the books cited, and owns that "Center for Enlightenment" has a website FILLED to the brim with anti-Christian slogans. If you are interested and can read Arabic go to http://www.baladynet.net/ and see the hatred oozing out the screen at you.
What do you call that Mohamed??
That vile individual says the following:
- Responses to "the people of the cross"
- Crimes of the Christians
- We're here to resist "Christening" our society (what on earth is he talking about??)
Here are some of his books:
- Sharia is the solution (to what?)
- The story of a nation called Egypt: where he claims to dispel "lies" by the Christians that Muslims aren't originally Egyptians and Copts (the man must be hallucinating)
- Sexual deviants in the church
- Pope Shenouda and Sectarian violence

And many more outright ridiculous claims and absurd arguments that are at best conspiracy theories and half truths. He even attempted a couple of articles about Catholics and Orthodox dialogue, like he can even begin to understand that issue. Do you not think that's offensive??

He's there attacking everything we hold dear and holy, beginning with our faith, our Christ, our Bible and ending with our Pope. Yet how many Copts did hear of that demanded an apology from him?
How many demonstrations peaceful or violent came of this?
How many Copts went on TV and threatened him with murder, like Amr Adeeb threatened Father Zakaria indirectly that if he set foot in Egypt he'll be "torn to pieces"??
Keep in mind that Father Zakaria never uses such vulgar expressions and emotive language like this guy. I personally have listened to and watched
70 episodes from Fr. Zakaria's program and there was never an insult directed at anyone. He merely discussed issues that are written in Islamic books...books that are not from biased sources, rather they are books that Al Azhar would use and endorse.

If you see a wrong thing and hope to tell the one who believe in this thing that it's not correct,but in the same time you want to keep his feelings,Will you leave him,saying that his feelings is more important than correcting his ideas?!!

No Mohamed, but I wouldn't antagonise him/her either. Besides, how do YOU know you aright and I'm wrong?

It's human nature for each of us to believe that they are right. Otherwise, we wouldn't carry on something that we believe is wrong. We all have values and beliefs that we are convinced are correct. That's fine. What's NOT fine is to get too comfortable and disregard other people's values and views.

We live in an age where information about just everything is just a click of a mouse away. If I wanted to learn a language, get an obscure recipe, chat to a guy from Iceland, learn about Buddhism, see Alaska I could do so right here from my own comfortable home.

What's more important than showing someone the error of THEIR ways, is showing them the goodness of yours. In the Christian faith we learn that the best way to glorify God is to show others how His love can change you. The Lord says: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Matthew 5:13

At the end I apologize if I insulted you or your religion or if I caused harm to you,and ask Allah to forgive me if I did wrong.

No Mohamed, you don't need to apologise to us. Christianity has endured 2000 long years and it is still standing firm. As a Christian I believe that a word uttered against my faith, or an act intended to weaken my church is as much for the glory of God as a good word or a charitable act.
22Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.Luke 6:22-23

Mustafa:
Thank you for your well worded comment and your your good sentiment. Please allow me to discuss a couple of things you brought up.

* RE: the definition of Copt: You are correct, except we (Christian Egyptians) were always labeled Copts. Perhaps a distinction left over from the days when Christians were strictly Egyptians and Muslims strictly Arabs.

Also if we really want to live with each other in peace & harmony we should forget all the past. Then we should really think about the relationship between Muslims & Christians in Egypt.

I respectfully disagree Mustafa. By no means is it positive to dwell on the past. However, the past must be acknowledged before we can move on. If we simply forget the past, we will not learn from past mistakes. If we simply forget the past we cannot understand how the current situation precipitated.

The first thing a doctor does when attempting to diagnose or treat an illness, is to check the patient's history. What the Egyptian society is suffering these days is an illness. Before we eradicate it we need to know where it started and how it got here. Until we all, Muslims and Christians acknowledge this, it will be too difficult to heal.

Another point is the impact on the Coptic community. I'm not too familiar with Egyptian law, but here in Australia and I believe in the States they have a similar thing (Pete am I right?), we have something called "Victim Impact Statement". This is a chance given to victims of crimes (Or their families if the victim themselves is deceased as a result of the attack) to tell the court how the crime affected them. This statement is often considered by the judge when handing down the sentence. But more importantly, the victim knows their feelings are important and that they've been heard.

That's what I personally would like to see. It hurts more than you can imagine when good, level headed Muslims who don;t condone violence and are peaceful people, deny the obvious. If all you moderate Muslims came out and said "it's true, there's been injustice...let's work on it" then things would be different. What has been happening however, is that mostly, moderate Muslims lecture us on the glories of peaceful Islam and maybe sometimes they might admit there's possibly an injustice or two against some Copts by a tiny minority of Muslims who probably don't understand Islam.

The idea of not accepting conversations between us in religion really scares me out. Because let's face it, if I died while I am practicing the wrong religion then I might get damned from salvation. I always remember something my prophet said one. He said that if god has a son then I should be the 1st to believe in that. Simply this means that Muslims & Christians really should talk about what the believe. Through history there were hundreds of conversions from each side as a result to these conversations.

Religious dialogue is not a bad thing. However, when it's one sided then it IS. The comment I made to Mohamed was in light of his constant one sided argument that absolutely disregarded anything of the opposite side. Also Mohamed has constantly asked me (and Amillennialist on his blog): not to take verses out of context, and to cite neutral sources. Two requests I feel he himslef failed to carry out numerous times. I am not having a go at you Mohamed, I'm just explaining the context of my comment to Mustafa.

Christians should never accuse Muslims of kidnapping their children & force them to convert.

No they shouldn't, if it were untrue. But in many cases it is in fact the truth that girls are kidnapped and/or coerced to convert.

Mosques don't really need permission to be built. I dream that someday Churches get the same facilities like mosques

Bless you for that, so do we!

At last I have to say that none of our dreams will be accomplished if we didn't really have the well to accomplish them. Both religions believe in love & believe that god is love. We all should ask god for mercy & salvation. We all should ask god for guidance

Amen to that!! But God isn't going to do it all for us, like you said WE have to have the will to change things. I for one, add my voice to yours in prayer that God guide us all to what is right.

Now that I waffled on for so long, I probably bored you all to tears :)
Thanks again for your valuable contributions.

Let Them Eat Cake!!

2006-02-27T22:29:00.000+11:00

No I'm not talking about the phrase allegedly uttered by Marie Antoinette when told the peasants can't even find bread to eat. I'm actually talking about the ignorant and arrogant Mr. Ali Odaysi, and his comments to the Washington Post (read article in title link).

The article itself lists a number of attacks on Coptic churches by Muslim neighbours, because the Copts are praying without permit. It's actually talking about the Udayssat incident which happened in October, and there'd been at least one other attack after that (Ezzbat Wassif).

Imagine, if you will all of you who live anywhere in the world where "human rights" aren't dirty words, imagine a Muslim community in your area. There's enough of them to warrant building a mosque so they won't have to travel to another town to pray. They do have the right to worship after all. Your mayor gives a statement to a newspaper reporter saying "There's no need!! There's a Buddhist temple down the road, why don't they pray there?!"

Well the papers would have a field day with "racist bigot", condemn this "anti-Islamic" sentiment. The PM or president would have to say "we love Muslims and we respect Islam". The mayor would have to apologise, or at least he would be asked to.

Here's what Mr Odayssi said:
"Anyway, a Christian is Christian. We Muslims worship in any mosque, why can't they worship in some other church? There's another church, an Anglican one not far away. Why can't they worship there?"

Is this man serious??? Was he trying to antagonise the Copts or is he really that ignorant??? Now I know that Anglicans and Orthodox aren't as different as Muslims and Buddhists are. It is true we are all Christians. But there are indeed differences in the ways we celebrate mass, there are differences, minor as they may be, in our denominations.

Until such time that the Anglican church and the Orthodox church sort this out, we are each entitled to worship in our churches. As a Coptic orthodox I have attended many Anglican and Catholic services both in Egypt and here in Australia. But that was my decision, I made that decision of my own free will. It's not for anyone, least of all a man like Odayssi who clearly has NO idea about my faith to make that call on my behalf or indeed on behalf of the whole Coptic community of Udayssat, to make that call for us.

It is my humble opinion that Mr Odaysi is playing dumb (not that this should be a long road for him to travel). He is probably taking a stab at provoking the Orthodox Copts to say "no we don't want to pray in the Anglican church. We want our church" To which the Anglicans would say "AAAAnd what's wrong with OUR church??". Maybe he could divide up the little Christian community.

I sincerely hope I am wrong. I hope this is just me being a bit paranoid. I hope he is just ignorant and doesn't really comprehend what he is saying. Because I hope nobody should have it in them to be so devious. But then again, when you are talking about the son of the man who burnt that very same church back in the 60's, who knows!!

مصر ليست وطنا نعيش به و لكنها وطن يعيش فينا

2006-02-24T14:10:00.000+11:00

Egypt is not a home in which we live...
But rather, a home that lives within us.

That's what the title of the post means in English for those who can't read Arabic. They are also the words made immortal by our shepherd Pope Shenouda the third. As a matter of fact I used to think that it was the pope himself who said that, because I so often heard him saying it growing up in Shoubra. (Forgive me but I don't remember who originally uttered these words. I just remember it was a prominent Coptic personality)

That's how we feel about Egypt Mohammed. We, the Copts have a part of Egypt in our hearts no matter where we go. Whether we live in Egypt or abroad. Whether we are young or old, teachers, builders, mothers, children, doctors, engineers, labourers, you name it. It is undeniable and you can see it in a Copt's face.

It is true I've lived here in Australia for many years, and I love this great country too and feel loyalty and respect to my new home. But the love I have for my old home is always there.

I take offence to your implication we don't understand or that we're trying to smear our country's reputation. There's something that keeps coming up in Egyptian media about this too:
"why do we need to air our dirty laundry for the world to see"

And to that we say: "why have dirty laundry to begin with?"
"why don't we clean our laundry ourselves?"

The Copts of Egypt have endured 1400 years....1400 long painful years of subjugation, humiliation and oppression in the name of Islam. We have shown goodwill and loyalty only to be rewarded with thuggery and hatred. We faught the Crusaders alongside the Arabs, and we faught the British alongside the Muslims, we faught the Israelis away from Sinai alongside the Muslims. We always faught alongside our Muslim compatriots, believing promises of a happy independent home land where we can live together as equals. We never regretted fighting to protect our beautiful home...but

What did we get in return?? I'll tell you what we got:

* We lost our language (they cut our tongues off in fact if we dared speak Coptic)

* They burnt the Alexandria library

* They forced us to wear huge wooden crosses and forced our women to wear prostitutes dresses

* We weren't allowed to ride horses, we had to ride donkeys...Backwards sometimes, just so the Muslims could have a laugh

* We were told either convert, pay a tax or we kill you

(all the above was done before the Crusades, so you see even after all that we still gave Islam the benefit of the doubt)

* The Hamayoni decree: presidential approval required to build/mend a church

* El Zawya Elhamra attacks

* El Kosheh massacre

* Church of The Virgin Mary in el Menya was attacked because the Muslims were offended by the ringing of the bells

* A newly built in El Oboor city was attacked by the POLICE. They claimed the church didn't have a permit

* State security police raided a church service in St Mark's Church in al Tor Sinai. They kicked the worshippers out, desecrated the altar and stole the Holy Altar Vessels (usually made of gold or silver)

* Our Muslim neighbors attack us for daring to pray (Udayssat and Ezzbat Wassif) while their Saudi fellow Muslims are ensuring the nightclubs of AlHaram have a steady trade. But no, a church where people pray is more offensive to them

* Books of the nature of those listed in post "How Enlightening" that insult our faith. Not to mention the abuse we hear out of loudspeakers of mosques and the tapes they play in minibuses and taxis

* Our daughters are being taken away and forced to convert

* The army...our country's army attacked one of our charitable organisations...a center for disabled children!!!

And many more heart wrenching and painful attacks on our churches, homes and businesses.

If we mistakenly gave the impression of weakness because we have been abiding by Jesus Christ's message of loving our enemy and turning the other cheek...we're sorry. We are not weak. We are the children of Jesus Christ and of beautiful Egypt. Jesus taught us to be humble, but never taught us to be weak. We'll never use arms or force, we'll never shed blood. But we won't take the abuse anymore. We'll shout it from the roof tops Mohammed, we'll keep telling our story. You can't possibly deny us that right as well.

What They're Saying About It

2006-02-22T22:36:00.000+11:00

Al Arabiya.net is one of the more perverse, seedy tabloid type news sources in the Arab world. It's the internet companion to a satellite channel by the same name. Most of its content involves some deviant sexual relationship, reports of rape, domestic violence and extra marital relationships. Another favorite issue of theirs is Christianity and Islam. Then there's a lot of padding with political and sports news, in order to give the impression of a respected news source.

One of the site's features is the readers' comments on articles. If you can read Arabic and would like a good laugh I recommend you browse some comments (although some are in English, but they are very few). However, I must warn you, some comments may offend you if you value things like human rights, religious freedom and peaceful co existence. Just remember: the poor dears are only practicing what they are taught.

funnily enough, AlArabiya reported the attack on Ezzbat Wassif's Coptic community

And as usual, there's the many readers comments at the bottom of the page. In the interest of fairness, many readers actually had something intelligent and balanced to say. There are however those who are fine examples of utter ignorance, and advanced cases of "Oh-dear-I'm-so-stupid-I-dunno-how-I'm-still-functioning" syndrome.

Those latter dears seem to hold a couple of ideas so close to their hearts:
1) Islam is superior and so it follows they are superior to everyone else
2) The East is Muslim, the West is Christian/Jewish (or ZioChristian as some have so cleverly called it)
3) Western leaders are constantly preoccupied with causing conflict in the East. They (Western leaders) are the ones orchestrating religious strife in the area
4) All problems in the Islamic world have one cause: ZioChristian world
5) All problems in the Islamic world have one solution: Islam
6) Diaspora Copts MUST be Mossad or CIA agents paid to lie and say Copts are discriminated against.

Now that you know this, may I present some of the most outstanding comments, just to give you an idea on how the average Arab Muslim thinks:
* دين الأخلاق الحميدة
ان الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يمنع أهل الكتاب من ممارسة شعائرهم الدينية قط فالاسلام دين التسامح ولم يكن الشغب وسيلة لإبداء الرأي بين المسلمين قط. لكن هذا التصرف ممكن ان يقوم به المسلم غيرة على دينه ودفاعاً عنه
by: مسلمة
The religion of good conduct: by a Muslim woman
The prophet never prevented people oft he book from observing their religious customs. Islam is the religion of forgiveness and never was violence a way for Muslims to express an opinion. However, such attacks may be acts of Muslims out of zeal for their faith and in defense of that faith.

Ah very good feedback sandwich there. Start with the positive then slip in the negative...wait where's the second positive? Maybe she doesn't do sandwiches, she's into feedback pizzas.

*اسماعيد عبواحد )
لازم وزير الداخليه و المخبرات الداخليه يعمل فى مثيرى الفتن دووول زى مكان بيتعمل زمان فى اى حد يكلم فى السياسه .... وغير كده اقباط المهجر الى ملهومش سيره الا انهم يدخلو فى شئوننا الداخليه يلموا نفسهم ودوول اول ناس تعمل فتن بيننا .. وياريت حسنى يسكت الحيوان رئسهم ده انشالله بالاغتيال عشان يبقى عبره Ismael Abdel Wahid:
The minister of interior and secret services must punish anyone who incites these events same as anyone with a political affiliation used to be punished. Also, diaspora Copts who have nothing to do but interfere in our issues should shut up. They are the first to incite religious hatred. I hope Hosni (the president) shuts up their leaders even if he has to have him assassinated..so he can make an example of him

why would we incite religious religious hatred against our own families?? oh sorry I forgot, the Mossad and CIA paying us to do it, blablabla, they just want problems in Egypt blablabla...got it.

هما صح فى كل الاحوال*
عبد الرحمن )
الحكومة عندنا فى مصر ممكن تدوس على رقبة المسلم علشان المسيحى يعيش وعلشان امريكا متقولش ان مصر بتعامل الاقباط بطريقة وحشة وتنقلب عليها فبتالى المسلم هنا حقة ضايع بجد ومش عرفين لغاية متى هنكون كدة They're always right anyway by Abdul Rahman
Our Egyptian governments easily steps on a Muslim's neck to please the Christians and so Americans don't think we mistreat Copts. As a result, a Muslim has no rights in Egypt and we don't know how long we'll have to suffer like this.

WOW!! Now HE is special...the poor man has completely left our realm.

اتلموا بقى يا أخوه*
مصرى )
انا باقول للاخوه المسيحيين اتلموا بقى بلاش قله ادب وخليكم ماشيين جنب الحيط ما احنا عندنا اصحاب مسيحيين زى الفل ومفيش اى تعصب بلاش استفزاز للمسلمين المسلميين مبيعملوش حاجه من فراغ اكيد حد استفزهم احنا اخوات واكتر من الاخوات بالادب وحسن المعاشره .... هتسخنوا... هيسخن المسلميين وانتوا فى الاخر اللى خسرانين مش كده ولا ايه ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ ياريت محدش يزعل ونفضل اخوات .... انا بحب اصحابى المسيحيين كتير قوى وهما كمان بيحبونى بالادب سلام Watch yourselves by an Egyptian

I say to the Christian brothers, behave and watch yourselves. Keep to yourselves and take a corner (??) We have many good Christian friends who aren't fundamentalists. Stop provoking Muslims, Muslims don't act out of nothing. If You get hotheaded, so will we but at the end, YOU'LL LOSE, don't you agree. I hope nobody gets upset and we remain brothers. I love my Christian friends and they love me...respectfully.

Now see Muslim woman, this guy knows how to do a feedback sandwich. Hang on I have to tremble a bit because his threatening comment scared me. Hurry Copts, bow your heads to your masters OR ELSE!!! but we're all brothers anyway.

* الله أكبر
الله أكبر والنصر للمسلمين باذن الله God is Great (allahu akbar)
Allahu Akbar and the Muslims will be victorious with His help.

He gets 3 points for effort. The guy must've exhausted his lonely brain cell to come up with this one.

لازم كل واحد يعرف قدره*
على من اسكندرية )
اكيد المشاكل بين المسلمين و المسيحيين زادت الايام الاخيرة فى مصر عشان المسيحيين فى مصر فاكرين انهم بقو ليهم قيمة فى مصر وفاكرين ان امريكا الطاغية ممكن تفرض على المسلمين قيودا عشان المسيحيين يعملو الى هما عاوزينه. نصيحة للمسيحيين ياريت تعرفو قيمتكو و قدركم فى مصر .. خليكو بعيد عن استفزاز المسلمين عشان ما تاخدوش على دماغكو كل مرة و سيبكو من امريكا عشان مش هتنفعكو ولا هتاخدو حقكو بيها. بلاش تحرقو نفسيكو بنفسيكو و خليكو حلوييين احسن ليكو
Everyone should know their worth by Ali from Alexandria

I'm certain problems between Muslims and Christians these days have increased, because Copts are starting to think they're actually worth something in this country. They think the all powerful America can force Muslims so they'll let Christians run rampant. word of advice to Christians: you should learn your worth and know your place in Egypt, leave the Americans out of this because they won't be able to help you or return your rights. You'll just be burning yourselves...better if you behave.

Ali mate; we know our worth and our place... We are COPTS which means EGYPTIANS. That land you stand upon was cultivated by our ancestors. The city in which you live contained the most grand of libraries in the history if humanity...Incidentally it was one of your ancestors who burnt it. No surprises then to hear what you have to say.

And so much more I won't bore you with. But you get the idea. Basically:

1) Its your fault we attacked you
2) It's America/Israel's fault we attacked you
3) Shut up or we'll attack you again, and that'll be your fault too.

Now again, I stress that there were many readers who posted sensible and intelligent comments, and I salute them. But the point is, the ones who just bark without thinking need to be heard too. That's the only way we can learn why they hate us so much...maybe there's a way to educate the ignorant or at least try to raise awareness.

Is Egypt Becoming A Lawless Society?

2006-02-22T17:38:00.000+11:00

This is the second time this year (and we're only in February) that a mob of thugs attack a Coptic community. The reason is the same.
They suspected that the Copts are building a church without a permit

When has it become the duty of a civilian to "enforce" the law (and I mean enFORCE)???

Now I thought that in all civilised, soverign, democratic states, there are laws and there are law enforcement agencies to uphold and protect these laws. I also thought Egypt fell in that category.

I also know that those Muslims had the best intentions. They just wanted to point out to those misguided Copts that they're breaking the law. Except, God bless their hearts, they just don't know how to communicate without weilding some sort of weapon or setting something on fire.

Why is it so upsetting to Muslims that Christians want to pray in a church?

Muslims build mosques left right and centre. They even pray in the streets on Fridays or on feast days and to hell with traffic flow. What could possibly hurt the Muslims in that village if the Copts built a church? There are 1200 Copts in the village, don't you think they have a right to have a church so they can practice their religion IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY??

Another question is how could these thugs feel bold enough to litterally take the law into their own hands unless they feel sure the police will be on their side?

My final question (and I may have to say it in Arabic as well) is that even if these people thought they were just "protecting the law", why this particular matter? Why don't they go fight a war against the drugs that are numbing the minds of Egyptian youths? Go fight the corruption of government agencies that thrive on bribes. What about builders who skimp on building materials and lead to buildings that collapse atop their residents? WHat about fundamentalist groups who go about blowing up tourists and Egyptians alike?

يعنى خلاص... الناس ماشيه كويس و الاقتصاد قوى و مفيش جراءم ولا بطاله. مفيش غير الاقباط اللى بيخالفوا القانون؟ إشمعنى يعنى يا ناس ياللى بتقولوا الاسلام دين سماحه و مساواه؟

All the above are crimes that are paralyzing the country's economy not to mention costing lives. Apparently my Muslim compatriots see things differently. They think building a church is more horrendous than all those crimes.

I said it before and I'll say it again: The gates of hell shall not prevail against her