The Power of the Common Cause- The Free Copts

The power of the common cause

Written by Neferteeti,
The Free Copts
Friday, 14 July 2006

Ask any Egyptian who grew up in the 30s or 40s and they’ll tell you that they did not experience sectarian tension in Egypt as we know it today. Many of them observe horrific events like Imbaba, El Kosheh or Udayssat and simply ask “what happened to us?"

Please see HERE for the full article.

A Request to all Passers By...

No matter who you are
or where you come from

No matter who you think is in the right
and who is in the wrong

If you go to mass
or keep the Sabbath
or look to Mecca when you pray

Or if you don't believe in anything

Please join in a prayer...

For the innocent lives living the horror we are lucky to only watch on our TV sets
For the children who are losing their mothers and fathers
For the children losing their own innocent lives

For the injured that they may heal
For the dead that God may rest their souls

For the angry that they find peace

For the confused that they may find their way

For the leaders that they may find wisdom

For Lebanon that it doesn't live through another war...God knows the last one did enough damage.

For the Holy land that it soaks no more blood

And for the world to remember our past mistakes....and not to repeat them.


The events of the past week have been horrific to say the least. True they may be happening "over there"...miles and miles away from most of us. But what kind of world are we leaving to our children if we simply just turn off the TV and forget about it?

Forgive my bias but I'm going to let the Lord have the last word here:


ليضيء على الجالسين في الظلمة وظلال الموت لكي يهدي اقدامنا في طريق السلام.
لو 1: 79

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Luke 1:79

More Belated Responses!!

Dear Mohammed
Here's the second (and final) installment of response to your comments/question:

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sons of prince were born away from the kingdom,but should they inherit hatred from the king?!

Just to clarify, we do not believe that God hated Adam and Eve at all, nor does He hate us. God was saddened by their sin but never hated them. God’s punishment is clearly spelt out to Adam:

17وَقَالَ لآدَمَ: «لأَنَّكَ سَمِعْتَ لِقَوْلِ امْرَأَتِكَ وَأَكَلْتَ مِنَ الشَّجَرَةِ الَّتِي أَوْصَيْتُكَ قَائِلاً: لاَ تَأْكُلْ مِنْهَا، مَلْعُونَةٌ الأَرْضُ بِسَبَبِكَ. بِالتَّعَبِ تَأْكُلُ مِنْهَا كُلَّ أَيَّامِ حَيَاتِكَ. 18وَشَوْكًا وَحَسَكًا تُنْبِتُ لَكَ، وَتَأْكُلُ عُشْبَ الْحَقْلِ. 19بِعَرَقِ وَجْهِكَ تَأْكُلُ خُبْزًا حَتَّى تَعُودَ إِلَى الأَرْضِ الَّتِي أُخِذْتَ مِنْهَا. لأَنَّكَ تُرَابٌ، وَإِلَى تُرَابٍ تَعُودُ».

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. Genesis 3:17

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Why you are better than those before coming of Jesus (in your belief)?!!

On the contrary we don’t believe we are better than they at all! I think David’s explanation was excellent. Salvation on the cross may have happened at a certain moment in time…but it is not bound by time. God is not bound by time, so an act of God (who saved un on the cross) can’t be bound by time. Just as He is eternal, His salvation is eternal and has saved all who obeyed Him and lived by His law with honesty and humility.

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Is Adam's sin like your daily sins?

The original sin is not like the sins we may commit in our daily life (see explanation in the first post on this issue)

Jesus saved us from the effect of the original sin and reconciled the Heavens and the earth. He gave us a clean slate if you like…its up to us to keep it clean or otherwise.

Think of it this way:

My father gave me a beautiful car and told me not to drive down a certain highway because it’s known to be dangerous.

I go there anyway…and whaddya know? I have an accident!!! I’m OK, but my beautiful new car is no longer beautiful…dinted and scratched everywhere.

I apologise to dad and he accepts my apology…I promise to listen to him from now on.

What happens to the car? I can’t afford to fix it!

Dad, because he is kind and loves me to death, fixes the car for me.

Now I have my beautiful new car looking every bit as beautiful as ever.

Whose responsibility is it now to keep it beautiful and look after it?

Mine!!

It is now up to me to be careful…to listen to dad’s advice…to keep away from danger.

Of course, the above example is not an exact match for the need for salvation to free us from sin…but I do hope it helps clarify the issue.

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I think that God must be the Most Powerful,as a result when He want to cerate man by a nature,there is not any power which can change this desire.And regarding this belief,I can imagine if God asked a man before Jesus coming;Why you did this sin?So he will reply:It's not my sin,my creation have a fault!!

Yes God is most powerful…yet sin exists. The concept of sin exists in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I’m not sure what you are asking, because if you are questioning how sin exists in God’s creation then you would be questioning your own belief as well.

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because Islam tells you to organize and resist-not kill-this lust and you'll paid by entering paradise,and if you didn't resist it so you'll be punished,if you replied the call of lust (by your free will)you'll be punished(in case you didn't repent),and if you replied the call of charity and good(by your free will)so you'll take the good retribution.

Again, I don’t understand what you mean by “organise and resist”. Christianity doesn’t expect us to “kill” sin!!! Like I said sin exists in all walks of life. It is up to us to excerise our free will, strengthened by God’s love in our hearts to keep away…to refuse being dragged into a sinful life.

What you say in that paragraph is exactly the same thing we believe: it’s up to us to choose!

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Why?Because Islam is not related to any nationality,persons or people but it denotes submission and obedience to Allah.

Also, Christianity is not bound to one race or group of people. The salvation was meant for all creation…not bound by time or by race or place.

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So,we don't deny Judaism and Christianity,but we believe that they're in their origin are right,but because the task of guarding Holy books of both of them have been put on shoulders of their followers so they have been corrupted,but as for Qur'an Allah Himself guarded it from being corrupted : " We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). "15:9And look at Bible,and will find a lot of conflictions between all Bibles.

Three problems I have here:

1) God also says in the Bible that His word will not be altered:

35اَلسَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ تَزُولاَنِ وَلكِنَّ كَلاَمِي لاَ يَزُولُ

35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35


2) If God promises He will guard His word from corruption…how do you explain Him allowing Jews/Christians to corrupt it?
If the Almighty says “I will guard My word”…why didn’t He?

3) Now I don’t know about you, but I for one read the Bible. There are different translations…but there are no conflict in the meaning between the translations.

Also, I don’t understand what you mean by “Bibles”?? do you mean Gospels? Or translations of the Bible?

And if you know what these conflicts are, could you give us an example? Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning or you have been misinformed. We could certainly explain this to you and at the end, you may decide you still don’t like the explanation…or that it did indeed clarify it to you.

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and I've been always asking myself;How Christianity by the belief in Trinity is respecting mind?!!This belief can't be reached by mind at all

Well actually it can! Many people throughout history believed in this faith whilst being very intelligent and well educated.

Perhaps you mean it cannot be accepted by YOUR mind? There is a difference here.

There are many things in Islam that I know MY intellect cannot accept. It doesn’t negate YOUR acceptance of them…it just means I don’t sccept them. But I can’t judge your intellect by my bias. Similarly you should not judge others faith and intellect by your own.

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all prophets and messengers talked about the One God who have no son or wife.

We do not believe God has a wife either!!

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God's nature is absolute and don't change by time,so if you thought about Trinity again you'll find that it existed after Jesus(in Christian belief)but before him there wasn't any Trinity.

God Has always existed…His nature doesn’t change…correct.
What has changed is our understanding of His nature.

The trinity has always existed Mohammed. The Gospel of St John the Apostle says:


1فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ، وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللهِ، وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللهَ. 2هذَا كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللهِ. 3كُلُّ شَيْءٍ بِهِ كَانَ، وَبِغَيْرِهِ لَمْ يَكُنْ شَيْءٌ مِمَّا كَانَ. 4فِيهِ كَانَتِ الْحَيَاةُ، وَالْحَيَاةُ كَانَتْ نُورَ النَّاسِ، 5وَالنُّورُ يُضِيءُ فِي الظُّلْمَةِ، وَالظُّلْمَةُ لَمْ تُدْرِكْهُ


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

The word here refers to Jesus Christ as does the Quran too:

[171] O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs
Sura 4 verse 171

Now I know this verse opposes the trinity but note the reference to Jesus as the word of God which is the point I’m trying to make…how do you explain Jesus being “The word of God” yet different to God? God being eternal: ie. Not bound by time…His word is as eternal as He is.

Look, sorry I didn’t want to turn this into a debate. Our aim of this discussion is to clarify to you what we believe. I am well aware of the fact you do not believe in the trinity and have also read “tafseer” of the Quran regarding Jesus. So I’m not asking you to explain this verse to me. I’m merely using it to clarify a point.

In a way, I know what the verse means to you as a Muslim…I’m, just telling you what it means to me as a Christian.

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I'd like to direct your attention to an important point,when I say that Christian belief have faults I don't aim at irritating you but I just invite you to let your mind work,whether you find me right or wrong but just don't delete your mind.

Mohammed; I know you don’t mean offence, but I can’t help but feel offended at your assumption that we don’t understand what we believe.

For starters, how did you arrive at the conclusion that we don’t use our mind to understand our faith?

If its merely the result of your inability to comprehend Christian concepts then forgive me but this is arrogance. I said this before to Mohammed Meshref, it’s like me saying “Physicists don’t employ their intellect to understand physics” just because I don’t understand physics!

Also, what you know about Christianity may not necessarily be a correct representation of what we actually believe. Hence, this discussion we are having to clarify some concepts to you. Of course you may still see these concepts as unacceptable to you…that’s fine, I’m not here to convince you of anything.

Just be mindful of the fact that a bit of tolerance goes a long way. Don’t “delete” our right to believe and practice a faith that we see as every bit as acceptable and meaningful as you see your own faith.

God's Peace and Blessings Be With You

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A Belated Response

In this post I plan to discuss many of the points raised in the comments on “Dear Mohamed: The Original Sin and the Salvation on the Cross (partII) But before I do, I’d like to express my gratitude and appreciation to all participants, especially Mohammed and David for their demonstration of how a civil dialogue between two people of different backgrounds and faiths should look like. I will also apologise again for the delay in participating but as you all know, I was pretty much away from the blog for a while.

Also, David; Thank you for sharing the story of your friend’s adopted daughter. It’s an exquisite example of God’s love for us in spite of our sins.

I’ll try to be direct and brief…partly because of time constraints but mainly because it’s the best way to carry out a discussion. So let’s get into it, hey?!

Lust and the Effects of Images

Mohammed; as I read your comments regarding this issue I remembered a meeting that was organised in church to welcome His Holiness Pope Shenouda in one of his visits to Australia. It was a youth meeting, and the church was filled to the rafters with young people who were looking forward to listen one of HH’s lectures and perhaps get the opportunity to ask him a question.

At the end of the lecture, a collection of written questions was taken up to His Holiness. One question or rather a comment written by a young man spoke of how some young Coptic girls are starting to wear inappropriate clothes to church (short skirts or tight clothing). You know what the first thing His holiness said?

He didn’t miss a beat….he immediately said “So why are you looking?” (طيب يابنى انت بتبصلهم ليه؟)
We all laughed!! Then His Holiness continued to say that of course the house of God deserves respect and that women or men entering the house of God need to respect the sanctity of this house…and even when you’re not in church, you treat your body as a sacred gift from God and not a tool to satisfy your vanity.

BUT!!!

The responsibility rests with each one of us to ensure we steer clear of sin. Sin exists in all walks of life. You speak of Islam not only prohibiting the sinful act…but also the means to it. I understand what you mean…its like not only prohibiting alcohol, but also selling it even if you yourself don’t drink it.

Christianity doesn’t know “haram” and “halal” (prohibited and allowed). Christianity teaches us that there are things that befit our status as the children of God and things that don’t. The Bible teaches us:

«كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تَحِلُّ لِي»، لكِنْ لَيْسَ كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تُوافِقُ. «كُلُّ الأَشْيَاءِ تَحِلُّ لِي»، لكِنْ لاَ يَتَسَلَّطُ عَلَيَّ شَيْءٌ. 13الأَطْعِمَةُ لِلْجَوْفِ وَالْجَوْفُ لِلأَطْعِمَةِ، وَاللهُ سَيُبِيدُ هذَا وَتِلْكَ. وَلكِنَّ الْجَسَدَ لَيْسَ لِلزِّنَا بَلْ لِلرَّبِّ، وَالرَّبُّ لِلْجَسَدِ.

12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. (1Cor 6:12-14)



You can tell a small child “Do NOT touch the stove”

When they get a bit older, you can then explain to them why they shouldn’t:
“Don’t touch the hot stove because you’ll burn yourself”

But you don’t even need to tell an adult not to touch a hot stove because they know through experience or learning what the result is.


Back before the Age of Grace, before our Lord saved us on the cross, humanity was in its spiritual infancy. There were things that were prohibited and things that were allowed. After the salvation, we are freed from the burden of death and sin (by death I mean life away from God…life in sin)…we can grow in grace and strengthen our spirit in God.

We grow in spirit so that we can live in this world but not let the sins and lusts of the world into our hearts. Impossible you might say? Not when you have the power of God’s love by your side. We submit ourselves, our will and our hearts to God and He turns our weakness into strength.

We know what is not befitting for our bodies, mind and spirit…and we know what the consequence of sin is. That young Copt in church knows that Jesus Christ says:

28وَأَمَّا أَنَا فَأَقُولُ لَكُمْ: إِنَّ كُلَّ مَنْ يَنْظُرُ إِلَى امْرَأَةٍ لِيَشْتَهِيَهَا، فَقَدْ زَنَى بِهَا فِي قَلْبِهِ.
مت 5: 28
28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart

True, those girls shouldn’t wear inappropriate clothes in church…but he looked…and that was his responsibility!

In a previous post I mentioned a verse from the Bible that I love so much:

20هَئَنَذَا وَاقِفٌ عَلَى \لْبَابِ وَأَقْرَعُ. إِنْ سَمِعَ أَحَدٌ صَوْتِي وَفَتَحَ \لْبَابَ، أَدْخُلُ إِلَيْهِ وَأَتَعَشَّى مَعَهُ وَهُوَ مَعِي
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

God cleanses us only when we submit to Him…when we open our hearts and accept Him.

Yes I know I said I’d be brief, and here I spent a whole post talking about one point…I can’t help myself!! Now you know why I haven’t had time to respond before, lol.

Back with more soon.
God’s Peace and Blessings be With You,

My Moment of Selfish Gratitude

Armed with my copy of the very first issue of The Independant Copt magazine, I settled on the couch to have a good read. My wonderful hubby and princess Angel were watching her favorite cartoon and it was a nice cold, but sunny Saturday morning...so we were enjoying some peaceful time.

When I turned the page to the article "The Village of Qus" (page 12), the pain started to mingle with the warmth of the moment and my pride in this magazine. I read on...read horriffic events...inhumane...suffering...pain....pain...pain..

The local director of intelligence of Qus became angry with the Bishop...he told Bishop Wissa 'As for the torture of Christians in Qus, you have seen nothing yet. There is plenty more to come'

He saw how the son and daughter of Buktor had been tortured. They (the police) had tortured the girl with electrical wires

Five charges of terrorism were filed against His Grace Bishop Wissa

They found twenty victims. Eight were killed out in the farms, and twelve in the residential area

A young Christian boy was also shot to death on the spot while riding his bicycle

Another person was so totally burned away that only o ne bone remained

Witnesses who had seen the actual shootings, their testemonies were denied. Forensic evidence was changed

Twenty one Christians were killed and nobody was held accountable

(Excerpts from The Independant Copt pages 12-17)

Horrific!

Just then, something amusing happened on the TV and my Angel jumped up and started giggling...innocent eyes filled with laughter.

I don't know why, but I started to imagine raising her in Egypt...

I tried to imagine having to tell her that she has no rights in her own home

I tried to imagine having to hide her in the house and hope and pray that the door won't break down any minute...while our neighbours pillaged our stores and terrorised us

I tried to imagine her beautiful eyes looking at blood soaked streets and wondering what it all meant

I tried to imagine having to tell her, her father won't be coming back home from the field because someone...probably one of our neighbors...shot him in cold blood

I tried to imagine telling her never to expect justice

I tried to imagine telling her that she doesn't count...because of her faith...she doesn't count

I tried to imagine she was riding her bicycle..... and I couldn't even imagine that!

Through my tears I found myself selfishly thanking the Lord I don't have to tell her any of it...Then I shed more tears for the mothers that do!

The Independant Copt

First of all...I'm happy to be back :) I missed you guys!

Now, let me introduce you to a brilliant piece of work which is the fruit of wonderful collaboration between young Copts, from all denominations, from all around the world!

The Independant Copt is a monthly magazine (in English) and the first issue came out on the 1st of July 2006. I recommend you all have a look at the magazine and also at the site Free Copts because there is a dedicated bunch of young Copts who will be working hard toward raising awareness of a whole host of issues concerning the rights of Copts in Egypt.

Let us know what you think!